i guess beastiality is still not a sin.. since it's not found in the new testament and only in the old testament for beastiality i guess

btw, does the bible have a verse prevents us from making building payments, having curriculum, cars, or curriculum as he did about tattoos? Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19:28 - O let me add it to my bible *sketch sketch* "thou shalt not have building payments, curriculum, cars, tools to help you witness for me" - kinda pathetic you would use this... no dude, that was dumb you can't compare tattoos and other tools

why would i take verses you take out of context seriously? because god's sacrifice has paid everything fully for you doesnt mean you can go out and do whatever you want, which is what i've been tryin to tell you the whole time
there's a difference between civil law, ceremonial law, and moral laws - civil and ceremonial laws branch from moral laws
but i was hoping you already knew that since you come from a bible college, but i guess they dont teach that these days

isnt the book of proverbs in the old testament? i'm thinkin that's an old testament commandment

and just because love is taught in the new testament, doesn't make it the only thing that is important...
i can love someone so much, i will let them do whatever they wana do... there's gota be a balance between love and order (law)
if a relative was doing drugs or somethin, just because i love them i would let them continue with their habit and even help conceil their habit.. this is called enabling
so you can't just preach love to people

No, if you loved them you would not let them continue doing drugs.

By the way, hope you don't shave, eat red meat, or wear multi-material clothing!

This post was edited by Diligence on Oct 21 2010 03:11pm

there's a difference between civil law, ceremonial law, and moral laws - civil and ceremonial laws branch from moral laws
but i was hoping you already knew that since you come from a bible college, but i guess they dont teach that these days

(Act 10:10-16) But he (Peter) became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were
making preparations, he fell into a trance; and he *saw the sky opened up, and an object like a
great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, and there were in it all kinds
of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air.
A voice came to him, "Get up, Peter, kill and eat!" But Peter said, "By no means, Lord, for I
have never eaten anything unholy and unclean." Again a voice came to him a second time,
"What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy." This happened three times, and
immediately the object was taken up into the sky.

Looks like he changed the law there, doesn't it? The thing is, you believe you have a firm grasp on all things theology - but you don't. No one does. No one can ever fully understand God. God can do whatever he wants, and whatever he does we do not have the authority to question. Now, my studies have shown me that tattoos are perfectly acceptable, especially if they glorify Him and give me an opportunity to share him with others. Perhaps you should do a little more studying. I've picked out a few things for you to consider:

In regards to these laws, this is exactly the kind of thing the Paul was getting at in Galatians with his discussion of the law. Also, Acts 15, The Council of Jerusalem discusses if non-circumcised/non-Jewish can follow Jesus.

This post was edited by Diligence on Oct 21 2010 06:18pm

once again.... there is a difference between ceremonial law and moral law..
ceremonial laws can change although they hang on the rationals of moral law
moral law CANNOT change, is eating meat a sin? no... is destroying God's temple a sin? yes...

once again, there is a debate about such trivial things amongst believers, this isn't the first time obviously
in the NT do you not recall the feud about eating food offered to idols? Paul said it's ok to do so
Now, does God change? No, because his moral laws will never change (these are the laws that define God - what he is and what he will always be)
although his appointed civil and ceremonial laws are changed according to the circumstance and time period i.e. wearing 2 cloths of a different material, eating seafoods, pork and other non-kosher foods, circumcision, there are many more topics like this

if you really want to break it down to what's going on, then consider the practices of the levitical days where tattooing was considered a pagan religious practice, obviously god does not want you to associate with these things, now i'm not saying that everyone who has a tattoo is a demon worshipper
now bring it back down to 2010, what does tattooing convey in today's society - who has tattoos? the drunk biker guys at the pubs or the stay at home mom with 5 kids? is it the gangster with a long wrap sheet of felonies or the pastor of a church in south carolina? it basically boils down to who or what tattooing is associated with, and in back in the day of the Old testament, it associated with pagan religion who do not wish to follow god, in this society that we live in, you are telling everyone that you are calling the shots and saying, this is my body, this is what i want to do with it when clearly in the bible it says

I Corinthians 3:17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.(who is the temple? you (christian) are the temple) that's New testament law.
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body," (1 Cor. 6:19-20).-

again, eating a piece of meat is not breaking God's moral law, stealing is (tattooing your body which is not yours is stealing from God, therefore it is sin)

but seriously i know this is cliche but What would Jesus do?
do you think he walked up to the woman at the well in samaria and said yo dawg... check out this cool tat.... says God loves you... now because of my tat, you will be saved right?

like i said before, your actions, speech and lifestyle should be enough

believe me, i used to be just like you, and want tattoos - trying to find loopholes in the old testament/new testament trying to say that it's ok to have tattoos

This post was edited by Conviction on Oct 21 2010 09:18pm

It's okay. We have differing theologies. It's not that I am trying to find loopholes - it's simply the way I interpret the text versus the way you interpret yours. You're turning to insults to push your arguments forward, and I am pretty offended. I can't convince you you're wrong, and you can't convince me I'm wrong. And I really do take offense to some of the ignorant things you have said. Do I really come across to you as someone who would say something as shallow as, "Hey man, check out this sick tat I have?" Are you blind? I've stuck here and defended my beliefs just as much as you have, and I'm not a pushover. My beliefs are real and my motivations for getting my tattoos are real. Don't disrespect me in such a way, even if you believe I am disrespecting God by getting tattoos that glorify Him and stir inquisition in others. Don't do it. Because the very body that you have repeatedly said God owns is not portraying a good image of him when you do. What would Jesus do?

But, let me leave you with a quote from one of my pastors who I talked with about the issue:

"Sounds like quite a character you are in a conversation with (is he a fellow student? Is he for real or just playing devil's advocate?). (That made me lol.) His divisions in the various kinds of law are off base. For the 1st century Jews they were simply governed by the law (everything was intertwined; civil, moral, etc). Further, his reading of the scriptures as a whole would be inaccurate if he's looking to the text (particularly the NT) as a means of "proofing" every issue we face thus reducing it to merely a book that serves as a moral check list of sorts.

When concerning the law and the movement towards shalom (God's true desire for all of creation) one needs to understand it in light of a "redemptive trajectory" (not sure if you've been introduced to this yet) meaning that since the fall God has continually been speaking in ways that move creation towards redemption; thus, the law is essentially "better" than what there was before it, but incapable of giving life. The movement however does head in a redemptive direction (towards Jesus).

Finally, concluding that beastiality is okay because it is not mentions in the NT fails to understand the reason/point for the law (shalom, peace, hessed, etc). Much of the law felt with abuses of power (the divorce portion although sounds harsh, actually protected women who prior to that had no rights at all). Clearly when someone is engaging in lude acts with an animal they are abusing their standing in creation as well as mid identifying the "God image" (imago Dei) they reflect. In OT law it makes sense to outlaw beastiality AND tattoos because both are abuses of power (particularly as tattoos corresponded with slave ownership) and when we engage in things where we act in in-humane ways we in turn become less than.

Don't I these thoughts are helpful. They may be a bit incoherent (I'm typing this all on my phone :)"

This post was edited by Diligence on Oct 22 2010 12:51am

kk

I humored you and read your link. Humor me and read this. It's a summation of pretty much everything I have tried to tell you.

http://www.religioustattoos.net/Bible_Support/index.php



This post was edited by Diligence on Oct 22 2010 04:27pm

kk, i read it... so much to say about that, but i'll hold my tongue

You legalists are so annoying.