Well, quite frankly I think most of the scientific evidence does indeed support evolution.

However, in my opinion, evolution and Christianity (and, even more so evolution and theism in general) are not incompatible.

Also, I'd like to point out that evolution has nothing to say about how matter, space, and time came to be. It also doesnt explain how the first life forms arose. In order for evolution to act, there must minimally be a molecule that 1) can replicate, and 2) can generate heritable mutations that affect its ability to replicate.

LOL... Man. I can't even believe people still believe in creationism - it's fucking 2010. JESUS CHRIST. Monkeys don't turn into humans within a generation ROFL. Monkeys mutate into humans over millions of years...

I mean seriously, do you guys really believe the earth is only 6k years old? If you are Christian, according to the Holy Bible, the earth is about 6k years old. I can drive 5 minutes to the closest museum, even a school museum, and show you something that is older than that ROFL. OUR EARTH IS BILLIONS OF YEARS OLD. I can see why someone would believe in creationism if their parents and friends tell them the earth is only 6k years old. Duh, things can't evolve into completely different species in 6k years. But, in billions of years, things can evolve.

I feel ashamed to be an American when we are like the least rational country in the world, only more rational than like Turkey lol...

All of the planets in our universe have been expanding over time, all from a central point, which points to the big bang.

HEY GUYS I'M NOAH. YEAH, I MADE THIS WOODEN BOAT 4000 YEARS AGO THAT IS THE SIZE OF 10 AIR CRAFT CARRIERS. YEAH, TWO OF EACH SPECIES THAT HAS EVER EXISTED GOT TELEPORTED TO MY BOAT. NONE OF THE ANIMALS DIED OR ANYTHING WHILE ON THE BOAT. THEY WERE PACKED CAREFULLY ON COUCHES AND STUFF.

EARTHQUAKES HAPPEN BECAUSE ZEUS ROLLED OVER.

WE ARE IN A DROUGHT BECAUSE THE GODS DON'T LIKE US RIGHT NOW.

MY RELIGION IS BETTER THAN YOUR RELIGION BECAUSE MY MOM AND DAD SAID SO!

NO ONE CAN MOVE WATER OR CREATE FIRE WITH JUST THEIR HANDS NOW THAT WE HAVE VIDEO RECORDERS AND STUFF, BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER. THE BIBLE SAYS THEY DID IT SO IT'S TRUE.

THE BIBLE IS OLD SO IT MUST BE TRUE.

LYING IS BAD

GOD WAITED BILLIONS OF YEARS BEFORE CREATING HUMANS BECAUSE HE LOOKS LIKE A HUMAN.

HUMANS ARE THE BEST SPECIES EVAR. WE ARE THE SMARTEST. AND INTELLIGENCE IS BETTER THAN STRENGTH, SIGHT, HEARING, ECOLOCATION, AND A BUNCH OF OTHER STUFF SO IF THERE IS A GOD HE IS DEFINITELY HUMAN LOOKING.

SANTA CLAUS IS REAL UNTIL YOUR MOM AND DAD LET YOU FIND OUT IT'S NOT.

SANTA CLAUS AND GOD ARE DIFFERENT IN A LOT OF WAYS!


At least just tell me you guys don't believe what you do because you read Darwin on Trial...

This post was edited by vinster on Sep 8 2010 06:02am

i'm just a messenger, and the message is: the bible is truth

So God is telling you to tell other people? Why is it the christian God and not some 3rd world country's tribal God? Is it only influenced by your geographic location? If you were to believe in another religion do you think that religion's God would speak to you the same way?

Do you believe this story? Do you think I played basketball like I said I did?

I was playing basketball with my friend Frank. We are ballers. Well, I'm a baller - he's not. I had 10 points he had 6. I scored two more threes before he scored anything. The score was 16 to 6, I was leading. I was dribbling the ball down the court. I was about to throw the ball into the basket when all of a sudden some guy flies down from the sky, lands, starts shooting fireballs into the air, does a triple back flip, then flies back into the air. When I threw the ball into the basket, I made it. The score is now 18 to 6, I'm winning. The game went on for about 20 more minutes, ending in a score of 30 to 22 - I won. It was a good game. I'm a baller.

Do you believe the basketball part but not the part about the guy shooting fireballs? Wouldn't saying something completely crazy inside a story that is supposed to be true completely invalidate everything in the story? Like, why would you believe something a crazy person tells you. Like, if a crazy person tells you a story that sounds mostly true but then starts talking about some crazy thing like he started flying around, flew to mars, came back, and continued his story. Wouldn't you disregard his story? I'm not saying you wouldn't believe his story because you don't like him, it's just if he's going to blatantly lie about something, what makes a person think he didn't lie about other stuff.

I'm not trying to make fun of anyone, I'm just trying to objectively put the situation in perspective.

This post was edited by vinster on Sep 8 2010 09:16am

But the point is...
We are fine with saying we don't know...
Why should we?
Whats wrong with simply not knowing how those atoms came to be?
Maybe one day it will be discovered
But as of now we do not know
But that doesn't mean magic...


All you do with adding god is make it more complicated

Big bang as 1 imposible
mater form nothing

Theist have 2 impossibles
1(Something from nothing that has the capability to think, reason and have almighty powers 2) This thing then creates something form nothing...


Now Occam's Razor comes to play (if you don't know it google it) and shaves god out.

Phillip E. Johnson said if we don't understand something, it must be supernatural. I have a feeling a lot of the christians on these forums think the same way he does... If you don't understand how a tree was knocked over, just make something up. If anyone asks you to explain it, just say that's what you believe and that you don't have to explain anything to them.

It's sad, really...people that are that close-minded. Hundreds of years ago no one knew what made up water. According to Johnson, we should have just accepted that it was supernatural and forget about it. Now, we know which molecules it is made from.

Just because something isn't explainable by science today doesn't mean it won't be explained tomorrow. I don't know why people jump straight to the impossible - something that has been proven false near infinite amount of times. You and your people aren't the only ones in the world. Some other people can scientifically explain something you can't.

It's becoming dangerous now...the denial of religious people. People can be so blinded that they kill themselves because that's what they think they are supposed to do. If some religious person thinks their religion is better than yours, you could actually get into a fight that would result in injury just over something that doesn't exist and doesn't make sense AT ALL. It's ridiculous.

A good example is the threat of one dumb ass church burning the holy book of another religion. I mean come on. That is retarded. The church is retarded for even thinking that should really offend another religion and Muslims are retarded for taking offense to someone burning papers.

I personally do not think there is a line between clinically insane and religious. The only difference is the religious groups are the majority - they say they see or speak with the same God whereas a clinically insane person can only speak to their own spirit or God.

People would rather believe the story from a person that thinks the earth is only 6k years old instead of believing thousands of people that can prove it's billions of years old.

A person's religion depends on their geographic location, the popular religion in that geographic location, and how low that person's family's self-esteem is.

Again, I'm not trying to offend anyone...I know some people might think I am since I'm contradicting everything they have been taught their entire life.

This post was edited by vinster on Sep 8 2010 10:18am

Creation is unscientific.

lemme put it this way : to every aetheist here, why are you here first off? this is Christian fellowship.

and anyways :
so what? you think because SOME GUY proved that a system of carbon dating can work and says something is 25 million years old it is?
were you there 25 million years ago? i doubt it. I could take a rock, say its 10 years old, make a machine, and use it to prove an atom ont here came about 10 years ago, and WAMOH! its 10 years old.
wait? what?! thats not what scientists do?! Please, all they do is used a system of THEORIES based off of other THEORIES to prove their THEORY is right, and then everyone accepts this THEORY
into their daily lives. PLEASE! if your a person who believes a scientist, then you need to check yourself, because sure -- they might be able to cure my when i have a cold -- thats happening NOW.
HOW can they prove an atom is 25 million years old -- if they werent there 25 MILLION YEARS ago.

Also -- you mean to tell me that we evolved from monkeys.. while we still have them? try explaining that a bit. lol.
and if your going to say 'well theyre still evolving' i wanna see some half-man half-chimps, please.

@vinster, my self-esteem is low? your coming on a Christian sub-forum, then youll probably brag to every Aetheist ont his site about it, and mines low?! please. get outta here bro.

Also, if your so smart about the Big Bang answer these please.

1) What is your take on the Big Bang? was it one atom, then it exploded and everything popped out, or out of absolutely nothing the universe happened, or what?
and what evidence do you have to support your THEORY?

2) How do you possibly plan to make me believe the THEORY of the Big Bang?

Scientific Method:

* Ask a Question
* Do Background Research
* Construct a Hypothesis
* Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
* Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
* Communicate Your Results

Now that we've established what "scientific" means, lets analyze all of Vinster's beliefs:



Can this be tested with an experiment? No. Therefore it is Santa Claus.



Can this be tested with an experiment? No. therefore it is Santa Claus.

He makes a lot of claims about about people blindly following religion, when he's blindly following the theory of macroevolution and the big bang, which have no solid scientific backing whatsoever. In other words, just about everything he says to negate belief in Christianity and religion in general, can also be applied to just about every claim he's made about his beliefs.

Now, I know he'll come back to the age of rocks, even though I've already explained what I believe about the age discrepancy in a previous post, so I'll just state it again here:



Now that we have all of that clear, I'd like to address his comments about religion. First of all, there is a distinction between the beliefs associated with a religion, and the way they are interpreted by individuals. No religion, not even Islam which has been demonized in the United States, advocates violence. The words "Holy and War" NEVER occur together in the Koran. It is people using them as a tool to convince the masses that makes them appear to advocate violence. This is called propaganda. and Propaganda exists well beyond the realm of religion. The US used it in both World Wars to demonize their opponents and instill the fighting spirit in their troops and in those that stayed at home. Hitler's reason for hunting and killing the Jews was their GENETIC inferiority. That's using science for propaganda. When a person of one religion attacks a person of another religion, he's a person attacking a person, not a religion attacking another religion.


Edit: This is an example of WW2 propaganda.

This post was edited by Subdue on Sep 8 2010 02:47pm

i'm telling you what the bible says, you can read it for yourself if you really wanted to know
or we can have a conversation/argument on what is logical when it's spoken of in the bible time and time again, man's logic is primitive to God's
so i'm not even gona argue with jsp anymore, i jus remembered another truth, it is not the Christian who does the convicting, it is the Holy spirit who convicts the heart of man
so i can give you all these rational reasons why you should believe in "God created the world", but in the end, it's not going to be logical to you that someone can speak the world into existence

what is logical though is how 66 books survived the test of time and persecution, these 66 books comprised of 40 different authors, which all lived in a period of 2,000 years
some authors lived in the same time line as some, some authors had no connection to any, some were kings, some were peasants, some were fishermen, some were doctors, all sorts of different occupations
some were jewish, some were gentiles, they were all different in their own way
yet, they all had one thing in common, they had a connection with God himself, and with this connection, God commanded them to write this book so that some day Conviction can one day hold it in his hand
not only did the authors write the Bible with no connection with each other, but they wrote it as if one person had written the books
not only are the books unified, but they are also without error or fault, there has not been one fallacy or error within the chapters of this book, otherwise the whole book itself would be rendered useless
these books were written in both Hebrew and Greek, some knew Jesus and have spoken to him face to face while he was on earth, some did not
this is no coincidence, once again, there must be an intelligent designer in the midst
not only that, but countless lives during the Roman empire have been slain because they would not recant from their faith
now, you would ask yourself, would someone really die for what they believe for? and if this is just a delirious psychosis, would it occur at such a huge scale?
would the christians marytrs in the early reformation days sacrifice their lives for a piece of false document?