I already answered everything you just said with the verses I posted. Murdering somebody is not loving that person, so having tattoos cannot be likened to it. And you think that when the Bible says God bought us with a price refers to our bodies...? No, it means that he justified our sins with the price of his life.

And, my tattoos are something that has strengthened my relationship with God. They keep me accountable, for one.

Let me ask you, if you are so dead set on adhering to old testament laws, then you would be justified for murdering people in some circumstances like you suggested before:

Leviticus 20:10 "And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death."

Or, should we go murder people who practice witchcraft?

Exodus 22:18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

e: Btw, waiting for you to then ask if I'm saying we do not need to follow the ten commandments - all the ten commandments are re-addressed in the New Testament, and fall under what Jesus himself considers the most important law.

Either way, we just have different theologies which are not subsequent in the long run to our faith in God.

This post was edited by Diligence on Oct 20 2010 08:55pm

Looks pretty cool, depends on where you get it but the rays coming a little ways off would probably look good.

Make sure you go to a bad ass tatoo artist or this won't look very good. This looks like a pretty difficult tat to do well with all the subtle differences in contrast.

it may be a way to witness to people but the end does not justify the means

Whose to say what justifies the means? You are judging based on what you think/believe, what if God views one person "ruining" his body to bring 1 person to Him worth it? God put a "thorn" in paul or peters flesh I dont remember which. He obviously did something unpleasant to him as a reminder to follow him. what if thats what a tattoo does for certain people.

I do believe tattoos jsut like anything can be bad but can also be used for the glory of God! Look at most christian and christian churches they do not follow new testament church structure at all! The NT chruches provided for each however they needed it! They fed, clothed and sheltered each other!

That is a different discussion but it all comes down to this.

all the ten commandments are re-addressed in the New Testament, and fall under what Jesus himself considers the most important law.

LOVE, no matter what LOVE. I dont care what the circumstance or what someone looks, smells or acts like; I will do my very best to love them. I a m not perfect but this is our Goal as Christians not stupid little debates about what the Bible says or doesnt say because ultimately he wrote it as a guideline not as the only way through him or hell. Jesus is the only way and we need to strive to havea 1on1 relationship with Him so He can teach us and talk to us and help us Love others the way we should.

O p.s I want to get Gal 1:10 tattoo'd on me. I really like your design, Would you mind if I "stole" it =P or do you think you could come up with something that would fit that verse?

Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.


Thanks!

I have already explained why I believe that the Bible does justify the means. It's not like I'm searching for excuses - I already had my theology about tattoos before I got my first tattoos, let alone this one.

Paul had a thorn in the flesh that he did NOT want, but God gave it to him anyways. Many people believe it was his eyesight going bad. Some have even suggested he had an infection of some sort that would be so gross that people could not stand to look at him. Now if you ask me, that doesn't do anything to gather people to Christ. Instead it may even hinder those who are shallow. A tattoo isn't a thorn in the flesh, you may wake up one morning and say. Damn, I wish i never had done this... then it prolly would be lol. I believe Paul's thorn in the flesh was God's way to grow him reminding him every day how fragile he was. A tattoo can be a reminder yes, but God didn't force you to get this tattoo.
If all you preach is God's love, then people will never hear the other side of God, Just because LOVE is the focal point of God does not make him sad when you do something he doesn't want you to do.

I can love someone so much that no matter what he/she does, I will forgive them. But does it still hurt me when they do something I dont want them to do? Wouldn't that mar our relationship? which is what you said? The relationship between Christ being the most important thing? Even though I am readily going to accept and forgive them?

And isn't our God never changing? I believe God has always been the same today yesterday and tomorrow, he is not limited by time. That is what is so awesome about him that he will never change his moods with us or say this law used to be bad, now it's ok. Maybe consider that the Old Testament Law is the full judgment of God. But the New Testament law is given so much grace and mercy that sins are forgiven. Like for example, you were supposed to be expelled from school but instead you only get detention. You still deserved the ultimate punishment but instead you get mercy.

It's natural for men to keep reminders of their God, much like people carry around crosses, wear necklaces with crosses, have crosses with jesus still on it hanging in their front door, they have built giant churches, they think that God needs to be expressed in a physical form.
God commands though that we are not to have any graven image of him or anything else, Why? because it's an insult to him. It doesn't portrait him accurately and completely. It would be like an artist painting a picture of yourself and it would oddly misshapen. For who fully knows God? Who can say they have known the complete wonders of his majesty? It would be like, a sculpture sculpting arnold schwarchnagger (however you spell that) with super big muscles, but super tiny dick or somethin really flawed. How would arnold feel about that? he'd prolly be pretty pissed off. The sculptor doesn't know how big arnold's dick is so how could he possibly know what to sculpt?

This post was edited by Conviction on Oct 21 2010 11:04am

lol'd ^

Perhaps you should reread the text then:

Romans 10:4
4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Galatians 3:23-25
23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Ephesians 2:15
15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,

Of course, this doesn't mean that we shouldn't pay attention to those laws, but if the old laws are not encompassed within the ones within the New Testament, then, as Romans 10:4 says, they are ended. Moreover, the New Testament has multiple instances of each Commandment spelled out almost verbatim. Why doesn't it spell out Leviticus 19:28 in the same way?

e: And you better go check over all your clothes to make sure you're not wearing anything made of more than one kind of material:

Leviticus 19:19 " 'Keep my decrees.
" 'Do not mate different kinds of animals.
" 'Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
" 'Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

or

Do you shave?

27 " 'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

These are all from the same chapter that the reference behind your anti-tattoo theology is.

This post was edited by Diligence on Oct 21 2010 11:43am

I think you just answered your own question there sir. http://www.biblebelievers.com/watkins_tattoos/bible.html this is a pretty good explanation and would prolly do a better job explaining things than I can, actually, i deleted everything I just typed because he basically says everything i have to say.. if you complain it's too long to read then there's no point in really debating this any further

I laughed about the part where "" 'Do not mate different kinds of animals. "" Do not apply to this day and age anymore because we're not under the law... sigh

btw, you dont need a tattoo to be a testimony to others about your faith.
your actions, your speech, your lifestyle is enough
makes me wonder if you need a tattoo to compensate for these..

This post was edited by Conviction on Oct 21 2010 01:25pm

Right, because in ministry we never use tools to help us. How dare ministries use resources to buy curriculum, or make payments on their church buildings. After all, all they need are their actions, speech, and lifestyle.

Either way, continue ignoring the verses I posted.

Obviously "Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness." is in the New Testament. It's all over in Proverbs. Furthermore, prostituting your daughter would not be loving her, which is a New Testament law. The guy who wrote that article takes one verse (Hair cutting) and says it applies only to pagans, but the next verse (about tattoos) doesn't apply, even when the text offers no separation or clarity about who it is referring to? Yeah, reminds me a lot of Calvinism.

This post was edited by Diligence on Oct 21 2010 02:24pm