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Sep 4 2010 06:58pm
Quote (Fr4D35 @ Sep 4 2010 04:01pm)
Usually, when someone denies evolution, it's because he doesn't know what it is and how it works.

Natural selection and existenzkampf are the bases of evolution.

E/btw you're using the wrong forum, this is for the deluded fairy tale lovers.





A computer is dumb, it runs whatever you want it to run. Example: A program to make the right moves when you play chess, wich is made by someone.

Nothing we know is more intelligent than humans, and it's because of the biological puzzle that it is made of, not a nonexistant spooky "soul"


Looks like you're in the wrong one too.
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Sep 4 2010 07:24pm
Quote (mochiiiii @ Sep 1 2010 03:57pm)
I am currently in an evolution class and it seems like the premise of the class is to disprove Creation. What are some solid scientific evidence that creation existed? Don't just quote the bible and use that as proof.


the fact we have no idea where the universe came form, the fact that there are between 30 and 50 independent constants of nature, and if one of them was different on the order of a billionith or a percentage point
no physical or biological life could possibly exsist, there are many points.

Trust me -- creation exsists, Evolution may or may not.

They have found rocks from the Noah's Ark era that had 2x as much oxygen as now because it didnt rain back then (the first rain was Noah's Ark)
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Sep 4 2010 09:39pm
Quote (Svartermetalisk @ Sep 4 2010 03:27pm)
The best chess computers> the best chess player so yeah we have created some things tat are smarter than us.


umm, no, chess computers are programmed with a set amount of possible scenarios according to the placement of the pieces on the board, these scenarios are created by the best chess players
when a chess player loses to a chess computer it's like losing to 50 of the best chess players talking/discussing the next possible move
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Sep 5 2010 12:26am
The real reason why evolution has engulfed the classrooms of america and around the world really is the fact that there is no real god in this theory, no god means that no other cultures will be offended, let's teach buddhists that there is no buddha and that'll piss people off, teach muslims there's no allah and that'll piss people off too

teaching that there is no god is like the tolerant soup, everybody doesn't agree with it, but it doesn't greatly offend anyone else

america actually started as a Christian nation, if you look at our history the first colonial school textbooks were hymns and passages from the bible, even the Declaration of independence has biblical truth in it, our currency has biblical truth in it "In God we trust" sketched in every dollar bill and every penny, it jus goes to show you how much america's changed

so to be honest, Christians or Creationists aren't attacking evolutionists or even other cultures, it's other cultures and evolutionists attacking Christians, as America used to be a Christian country
you even said it yourself that the whole point of Evolutionists in your class attacks Creationists in just about every point
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Sep 5 2010 01:41am
Quote (Conviction @ Sep 5 2010 03:39am)
umm, no, chess computers are programmed with a set amount of possible scenarios according to the placement of the pieces on the board, these scenarios are created by the best chess players
when a chess player loses to a chess computer it's like losing to 50 of the best chess players talking/discussing the next possible move


basically what ur trying to say is....computers cannot adapt (aka learn) ...humans can. There is a kind of intelligence that no "robot" etc will ever have unless it is able to literally "build itself" up according to stimuli from the environment. Until then...nope.
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Sep 5 2010 09:32am
lets put it like this: is it more believeable that everything around us started from an explosion that expanded something smaller than the point of a needle? they say thats when the universe was created, but theres scientific laws that state that matter cannot be created or desroyed. (how ironic) is that more believeable than a higher being creating everything?

kinda a hot button debate these days...but believing in God calls you to have FAITH in him, even though theres not 100% concrete proof. there are miracles, but most people still dont believe in him.
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Sep 5 2010 10:21am
Quote (RUSSiABANK @ Sep 5 2010 03:41am)
basically what ur trying to say is....computers cannot adapt (aka learn) ...humans can. There is a kind of intelligence that no "robot" etc will ever have unless it is able to literally "build itself" up according to stimuli from the environment. Until then...nope.


yes, thank you, lol
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Sep 6 2010 11:41pm
Conviction, it is a bit difficult to take you seriously when you sprinkle sarcasm throughout your argument. That being said, the creation story can and has already been proven historically inaccurate.

Carbon Dating has shown that the earth has existed far longer than the creation story and Biblical accounts suggest. Carbon Dating involves measuring the amount of radioactive carbon in a given item (usually rocks found deep in the earth.) Using the half life of the radioactive carbon, scientists are able to extrapolate how long that particular rock has been there.

That being said, take the creation story as what it is, a story written to illustrate a lesson. Jesus was said to use these stories quite frequently. They're called parables.

Does that mean that God didn't create the world? No, not necessarily. It simply means he didn't create it in the way laid out in Genesis. It is still more believable that a supreme being created the world, than that there was some explosion that created order out of chaos.

What about evolution? There are generally two types of evolution beliefs. The first, is the basic evolution through natural selection, whereby, individuals in a population mutate some feature that makes them more capable of surviving in their environment. As a result of increased survivability, those individuals procreate more proficiently, and overtime their mutation becomes more common place. One example cited frequently involves moths in England, where during the Industrial Revolution the butterfly population changed to include increasingly large numbers of black individuals, as they were better able to hide from predators against the soot covered trees.

The second type of evolution suggests that all species evolved from single celled organisms. This type usually uses the previous type of evolution as evidence. However, this form of evolution runs into some pretty obvious and glaring inconsistencies, the biggest of which is, where are the intermediary forms, and how were those forms beneficial?

It is also important to keep in mind that not all mutations can be passed down. Many mutations, even if they are somehow beneficial (which is not exactly common), result in sterility.

My personal conclusion? I believe that God created the world, and then for the most part, left it alone. As man began to grow in intelligence as a species, he began to ponder his own creation, and stumbled upon the concept of God. Then, he came to the conclusion that this concept could be used to instill fear, and from that fear, obedience. He became the first Shaman-King figure, and under that guise, spread belief in his religion.

Does that mean that people can't have divine experiences? No, not necessarily. I believe that many religions have really made some sort of connection with the supreme being that Christians refer to as God, but that connection is most observable by the individual. It's not really something that can be quantified by the one who experiences it for the comprehension of someone else.
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Sep 7 2010 07:23am
Quote (Subdue @ Sep 7 2010 12:41am)
Conviction, it is a bit difficult to take you seriously when you sprinkle sarcasm throughout your argument.  That being said, the creation story can and has already been proven historically inaccurate.

Carbon Dating has shown that the earth has existed far longer than the creation story and Biblical accounts suggest.  Carbon Dating involves measuring the amount of radioactive carbon in a given item (usually rocks found deep in the earth.)  Using the half life of the radioactive carbon, scientists are able to extrapolate how long that particular rock has been there.

That being said, take the creation story as what it is, a story written to illustrate a lesson.  Jesus was said to use these stories quite frequently.  They're called parables.

Does that mean that God didn't create the world?  No, not necessarily.  It simply means he didn't create it in the way laid out in Genesis.  It is still more believable that a supreme being created the world, than that there was some explosion that created order out of chaos.

What about evolution?  There are generally two types of evolution beliefs.  The first, is the basic evolution through natural selection, whereby, individuals in a population mutate some feature that makes them more capable of surviving in their environment.  As a result of increased survivability, those individuals procreate more proficiently, and overtime their mutation becomes more common place.  One example cited frequently involves moths in England, where during the Industrial Revolution the butterfly population changed to include increasingly large numbers of black individuals, as they were better able to hide from predators against the soot covered trees.

The second type of evolution suggests that all species evolved from single celled organisms.  This type usually uses the previous type of evolution as evidence.  However, this form of evolution runs into some pretty obvious and glaring inconsistencies, the biggest of which is, where are the intermediary forms, and how were those forms beneficial?

It is also important to keep in mind that not all mutations can be passed down.  Many mutations, even if  they are somehow beneficial (which is not exactly common), result in sterility.

My personal conclusion?  I believe that God created the world, and then for the most part, left it alone.  As man began to grow in intelligence as a species, he began to ponder his own creation, and stumbled upon the concept of God.  Then, he came to the conclusion that this concept could be used to instill fear, and from that fear, obedience.  He became the first Shaman-King figure, and under that guise, spread belief in his religion. 

Does that mean that people can't have divine experiences?  No, not necessarily.  I believe that many religions have really made some sort of connection with the supreme being that Christians refer to as God, but that connection is most observable by the individual.  It's not really something that can be quantified by the one who experiences it for the comprehension of someone else.


You should research Intelligent Design. I know that it explains that, much like when Adam was created, he wasn't a baby. So, like the body, things like carbon dating, the age of the trees and the rings that tell their age, and the age of the earth were created at a certain age. They didn't begin as seeds. I haven't read into it enough to explain it thoroughly, but that's a rough summary.
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Sep 7 2010 12:12pm
Quote (ihavethesniffles @ Sep 7 2010 06:23am)
You should research Intelligent Design. I know that it explains that, much like when Adam was created, he wasn't a baby. So, like the body, things like carbon dating, the age of the trees and the rings that tell their age, and the age of the earth were created at a certain age. They didn't begin as seeds. I haven't read into it enough to explain it thoroughly, but that's a rough summary.


This would be logical, if it weren't the case that rocks have been found dating back to various ages consistently. In other words, if we use this line to represent history:

4.5 Billion Years Ago|----------------|---------------|-------------|(creation, 3000 years ago)-------------| Present
(obviously not to scale)

Rocks have been found dating back to the various intervals. This means that, even if it were the case that everything was created at a certain age, it would account for rocks being present at various ages starting from the creation story, but not for the very very long interval before it.

To look at the concept in another way, what possible purpose would there be for God to create rocks simulating a consistent progression of existence billions of years prior?

That theory has little more scientific backing as punctuated equilibrium, which in my opinion, is also a ridiculous joke.
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