d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Christian Fellowship > A Question About Prayer
Prev123
Add Reply New Topic
Member
Posts: 12,441
Joined: Sep 22 2009
Gold: 507.00
Sep 10 2010 02:24pm
Quote (Conviction @ Sep 10 2010 03:20am)
first off, to do a test like that would mean God himself is on trial... I remember in one passage in the bible when Jesus was in the wilderness being tempted by Satan, Jesus said, "do not tempt the Lord thy God"
this "test" or "temptation" is wrong and shouldn't be performed, it is like God being judged by humans when we know right off the bat there is no judge that is more loving and has more justice

secondly, we are not god, so we cant take a single result as the final answer, i'll give you a testimony of my mother who died of cancer 6 years ago
she had been a testimony to many people, she had many friends both saved and unsaved, and she had been struggling with cancer for a few years prior to her death
she died the same year that i was going to go to college and at the time i didn't know what i wanted to do or "major" in
i guess you can say that her death involved me desiring to become a doctor and help those that have cancer, because of that, God's ultimate will might be to answer another individual's prayer that has not even been spoken yet because i someday helped that person's family member or friend be able to recover from cancer
God knows what he is doing even if he says no your prayers, i wasn't the only person affected by my mother's death, countless friends of hers who were unbelievers couldn't understand why our family could have such perfect peace at the day of her funeral so they asked us, we relayed them to the pastor after talking with them for a little, because of this, many of my mother's friends accepted christ as their saviour
my mother would be proud as she looks down on heaven on what her life AND DEATH have accomplished here on earth

thirdly, there is a huge inconsistency with "knowing they are being prayed for", there is a huge variety of "Christians" out there, i'm not going to go into too much detail but there are many hypocrites that do not truly know Christ as their personal saviour
for example, if you asked me if i was a 6'6 200 lbs of pure muscle and i told you through here on the internet that i was, would you believe me? maybe maybe not, you can't tell if someone is what they say they are over the internet just like you can't tell if someone is truly saved or not, only God can know if they are or not, now i know you can take a picture and post it on the internet to prove it is really me but that was a bad analogy but i hope you get my point that people can say they are christians but not truly


To your first point, we may have been looking at what God does in response to prayer, but do you think a loving God would deny help to the people recovering simply because he was being observed? Is that love? To your second point, we don't have to take one result, because we can take 1,802 results. And to your third point, is your final answer just to simply say they were bad christians and god doesn't listen to bad prayers?

Quote (weasleface @ Sep 10 2010 01:05pm)
or maybe God didnt do anything because he KNEW they were testing him and God doesnt approve of that. so he just didnt participate

but prayer has an effect on things for else God wouldnt tell us to do it


How exactly do you think god is expressing his love to the patients recovering from the coronary bypass surgery? Why should he all of a sudden deny them his help, simply to stay under the radar? This would make God's supposedly unconditional love, conditional.
Member
Posts: 8,923
Joined: Aug 28 2010
Gold: 118.00
Sep 10 2010 03:32pm
Quote (Legacy_Tangent @ Sep 10 2010 04:24pm)
To your first point, we may have been looking at what God does in response to prayer, but do you think a loving God would deny help to the people recovering simply because he was being observed? Is that love? To your second point, we don't have to take one result, because we can take 1,802 results. And to your third point, is your final answer just to simply say they were bad christians and god doesn't listen to bad prayers?



How exactly do you think god is expressing his love to the patients recovering from the coronary bypass surgery? Why should he all of a sudden deny them his help, simply to stay under the radar? This would make God's supposedly unconditional love, conditional.


love goes beyond what is seen or observed, not to mention the fact that if God were to love each person in the world equally the same as he said he does, he would have to be fair to everyone in the sense of death and health, that includes dying of old age, everyone would know their own life expectancy, because it would simply be unfair for someone to live longer than someone else, do you know what i mean?

wut u mean by 1802 results? there are many results that occur in to every action and a reaction that creates more results and a constant chain of this occurs

not bad "christians" - the term for that is backslidden christians, they are those that are truly saved but they start to become numb to the holy spirit's soft voice, the one that leads you in life, the one that gives you an uneasy feeling when you're doing something wrong, the one that encourages you to do right
but that's not the idea i'm trying to get at either (backslidden christians) - i'm talking about those who probably are not even christians at all, they claim to be but have never accepted Jesus Christ as their saviour
the bible says that Jesus is our mediator to the father, (there are 3 parts of God - the father, the son (jesus), the holy spirit - all God but have their own distinct roles) - therefore, Jesus hears us and then relays it to God the Father
although God the Father is Jesus and Jesus God the Father, it's a very hard concept to understand and even I don't understand it fully but obviously like prayer and how everything is worked out in heaven we can never know until we go there someday
our feeble human minds cannot understand the ways of God

there are even proofs in the bible where God commands things of his people that modern science is just figuring out within these decades

such proofs are - the circumcision of babies in the Jewish community - the reason for circumcision today as we know it is for the purpose of preventing urinary track infections
although you do not need a circumcision to prevent UTI's it's a good idea due to the fact that one day when you are married or participate in sexual intercourse, bacteria that is stagnant in the foreskin can be passed into the vagina of your partner
God commanded this of jews and they did not know the whole reason why God commanded it but they did it anyway
another factor in Jewish circumcision is the fact that the babies were not to be circumcised until the 8th day, scientifically, vitamin K a necessary component in blood clotting is not readily available until the 7th to 8th day of birth
this is why newborns in the nursery of hospitals who get circumcisions are given a dose of Intramuscular vit K

another fact in the bible states that lepers are to be set aside from the community or city walls
this is because God knew how leprosy transmitted itself, back then, there were no microscopes to study how bacteria transmitted itself
there were no isolation precautions, there were no scientific labs as we do today
but how could these people keep themselves safe? God knows everything already since he created everything and put the laws into place

God's love is uncoditional, if these people are "true Christians" then why would they fear death? if you knew you were going to a place where there is no more crying no more pain no more suffering (heaven) then why would you fear dying?
death to a christian is not the end of the world, it is simply God calling one home, there's a phrase that Christians use, it goes "This world is not my home, I'm just passing through" yes we are here on earth, but that is not our final destination
Member
Posts: 32,093
Joined: Oct 11 2008
Gold: 18.00
Sep 10 2010 04:16pm
Quote (Legacy_Tangent @ Sep 10 2010 04:24pm)
How exactly do you think god is expressing his love to the patients recovering from the coronary bypass surgery? Why should he all of a sudden deny them his help, simply to stay under the radar? This would make God's supposedly unconditional love, conditional.


there are alot of people in the world suffering from disease and cancer and that sort of thing

and i guarentee you alot of them are being prayed for.. but prayer doesnt completely fix the situation

you have to pray in faith and the person that is being prayed for also has to have faith that they are healed

you cant simply pray and everything is ok
healing takes faith

and God won't deny them healing just to stay under the radar, but just because they are participating in this test is a great sin. to test God. and sin doesnt go without punishment unless they are truely sorry and repent and are forgiven.
and first of all the people who were participating in this test probobly had no faith at all they were going to be healed, so they werent. God doesnt just heal people because of prayer... there HAS to be faith
Member
Posts: 20,461
Joined: Jun 16 2008
Gold: 722.53
Warn: 10%
Sep 10 2010 06:31pm
Quote (weasleface @ Sep 10 2010 10:16pm)
there are alot of people in the world suffering from disease and cancer and that sort of thing

and i guarentee you alot of them are being prayed for.. but prayer doesnt completely fix the situation

you have to pray in faith and the person that is being prayed for also has to have faith that they are healed

you cant simply pray and everything is ok
healing takes faith

and God won't deny them healing just to stay under the radar, but just because they are participating in this test is a great sin. to test God. and sin doesnt go without punishment unless they are truely sorry and repent and are forgiven.
and first of all the people who were participating in this test probobly had no faith at all they were going to be healed, so they werent. God doesnt just heal people because of prayer... there HAS to be faith


Where in the bible does it say that the people you pray for have to have faith too?
Member
Posts: 32,093
Joined: Oct 11 2008
Gold: 18.00
Sep 10 2010 06:40pm
Quote (AEtheric @ Sep 10 2010 08:31pm)
Where in the bible does it say that the people you pray for have to have faith too?


you cant just pray and BAM you got it.

you have to pray in faith if you want something
the bible stats that
jesus said when you pray thank the Lord you have it and have faith and believe you have recieved

correct me if im wrong

This post was edited by weasleface on Sep 10 2010 06:40pm
Member
Posts: 20,461
Joined: Jun 16 2008
Gold: 722.53
Warn: 10%
Sep 10 2010 08:34pm
Quote (weasleface @ Sep 11 2010 12:40am)
you cant just pray and BAM you got it.

you have to pray in faith if you want something
the bible stats that
jesus said when you pray thank the Lord you have it and have faith and believe you have recieved

correct me if im wrong


Nice job dodging my question. Jesus says you have to have faith the size of a mustard seed to move mountains, so I think prayer is supposed to be effective even if one has barely any faith. :/
Member
Posts: 12,050
Joined: Jan 23 2010
Gold: 670.40
Sep 10 2010 09:01pm
Quote (AEtheric @ Sep 10 2010 09:34pm)
Nice job dodging my question. Jesus says you have to have faith the size of a mustard seed to move mountains, so I think prayer is supposed to be effective even if one has barely any faith. :/


if you have ANY faith, its still faith. its either a 0 or a 100% in my opinion.
So having faith like a mustard seed means that even though you may be new at this, or you may not know alot about healings/whatever

the fact that the person HAS a bit of faith, negates the fact that its small.
Member
Posts: 12,050
Joined: Jan 23 2010
Gold: 670.40
Sep 10 2010 09:02pm
Quote (Legacy_Tangent @ Sep 9 2010 04:56pm)
Would you be willing to record a short video of yourself doing this? I am very curious.


no thanks XD kinda weird...
go to your nearest 'on fire' church, and ask someone to show you, or just sit through a prayer meeting.

Quote (Legacy_Tangent @ Sep 9 2010 10:40pm)
I disagree. There was a study backed by the Templeton foundation that observed what happened to different patients recovering from a coronary bypass surgery, that were prayed for and not prayed for( 1,802 patients). The people praying of course were from three different churches in Minnesota, Massachusetts, and Missouri. Of the two groups of patients (neither of which knew they were being prayed for), there was no difference between those that were prayed for, and those that were not.

Interestingly, those that KNEW they were being prayed for "suffered significantly more complications than those who did not."


If i was a person who didnt really believe in Christ, and knew someone was praying for me -- that would generate some faith in me.


BTW -- they proved praying in tongues is spiritual.. when a normal person talks, a certain part of your brain is used.
They had people pray in tongues, and the part fo the brain used to talk/move your mouth was completely unactive basically.


EDIT: sorry for the double post =/

This post was edited by Keasbey_Nights on Sep 10 2010 09:04pm
Go Back To Christian Fellowship Topic List
Prev123
Add Reply New Topic