hmm... wasn't the bible written by man though? not to stray off topic, but in that sense, its still mankinds standards, not gods.

They were given to mankind by God himself.

If someone could pm me to tal about stuff. would be much apreciated.

I have read a fair portion of the Bible, and I can accept that every individual "sins" (secular spin on the term sinning)
However, I cannot come to terms with the fact that in Christian dogma, not believing in God is a one way ticket to eternal Hellfire.

One can be a compassionate, repenting, generous, and loving individual (all in a secular sense), but burn till the end of time simply because they didn't worship God.

The Dalai lama once said: "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness"
But a position like this, according to Christian philosophy, leads to eternal suffering.

What's so confusing about it? You cannot pick and choose which things you feel are good or bad, that is the flaw behind your reasoning. (Which was more or less my exact original quote). You have this self centered view on what is good and bad, meaning, it's all about you (even though you claim to have non-selfish intentions, you're still doing it for you). Choosing yourself as an idol/temple (as the Dalai Lama has done) is no different than any other earthly idol. This directly violates one of God's direct commandments.

A good example would be your parents raising you, instilling certain morals in you. When you moved out, you decided to follow (most) of those morals, but rejected your parent(s) otherwise (to the point of refusing to acknowledge they even exist). What does that say about your family and relationship with your parents? Even though you are living as they taught you, you have still abandoned them, which in itself is the problem.

If you had read "a fair portion" of the Bible, you would know that God wants you to give yourself up to him. Please read more (or better yet, all) of the bible before replying in this forum further. It's pretty obvious that you've only read some bastardized cliff notes version.

Thanks

You suggest that humanity is incapable of knowing good from bad.
I disagree, let's leave it at that.

Furthermore, I find it rather insulting that you think your kindness, "done for God", is somehow superior to the kindness I might show to my fellows for humanitarian reasons.

One might argue that all good deeds are seeded in part by selfish motives (Neurochemical rewards, Social rewards, etc.) however, the Christian dogma is by no means exempt in that case.
If anything, the concept of Heaven presents a powerful reward for so called selfless behavior, as Hell acts as an equally powerful deterrent for "bad behavior"

By the way, I assure that I've not read some bastardized cliff notes version of the Bible, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't insult me in your posts by saying as such.

Thanks

This post was edited by MidnightRider on Jun 25 2010 08:40pm

You asked specific questions, which I answered. Your only defense now is in somehow arguing that your self chosen morals are superior (or on par) to God's. Your free will gives you that choice, but it doesn't make the end result any different. Your feigned offense is rather humorous, but is not unexpected from someone that has such selfish ideals. And I asked you not to spam this topic (or sub forum).

I'd like to comment on this. Since I am a believer in science and a skeptic of religion, my pick on the whole matter of religion is that man created religion and that the morals, in let's say Christianity, was founded by people at time of the creation of the religion. Many of the moral standards reflect morals that would fit in the society at that time, which suggests it was from that time these morals were instituted, or from earlier times passed on from generation to generation and religion to religion. However, since many moral standards are timeless they seem to fit in our current modern society, but we can still see that a modernization of a religion, we can call it a hypothetical religion that could be created by man today, that fits today's society and what most people would be likely to believe in, would be beneficial to the religion, in one sense. This comment may seem like an insult but is not that at all. I also think that my viewpoints have a basis in the liberal and secular upbringing I've had in Sweden, which is the most secular country in the world (I've read). I would then argue that perhaps, some morals instituted today would be superior to Christianity's morals simply because of the difference in circa 2,000 years and the changes in the societies between these epocs, and therefore are more modern and fit better with today's society. This is just my pick on the whole matter and is just my opinion and anyone can think the complete opposite and they are entitled to their opinion as well.

Oh, such sweet ignorance. You really think modern society is somehow unique or special? Think again. Even in the time of the old testament, there were societies where things like bestiality and homosexuality were commonly practiced and accepted. Even the concept of socialism isn't new (since you brought up Sweden), and has been done historically (and always failed).

There's a reason we have sayings like "repeating history", and such, because mankind is stupid, has selfish and egocentric ideas about himself and the world around him. Each time it comes around in a circle, there are those "enlightened" types that seem to think they have the answers, and that even though they are doing the same exact approach that has been done countless times before them, since it's them, this time it will work out!

You should spend more time studying history, and not just from liberal textbooks, but from a wide range and variety of published materials. It may open your eyes to the true reality of things.

Don't post on this sub forum again, use the PaRD subforum for such conversations, as they do not belong here.