I beg to differ my friend. Repentance is a physical act we do every day. Repentance is turning away from sin and not willfully sinning. Therefore it is an action to stop drinking, stop going to bars and other lewd places, stop lieing, stop stealing,....stop being mean and hurtful to others.

Receiving the Holy Spirit was only accomplished two ways, either God administered as he did with the apostles and the house of Cornelius or the apostles did it "in this case" by the laying of their hands. Baptism with the Holy Spirit ended with the apostles. But, we have to remember baptism with the Holy Spirit was to allow miraculous gifts to be performed to show the power of God for the unbelievers. I am running out of time here at work or I would quote verses to back this up.

Well, thats a whole other issue. A person can't be born again, and again, and again.

Once we are born anew, we have eternal life. It doesn't start when we die and go to the grave, but at the moment of Salvation. God doesn't save a person and then have them turn away. He finishes the work He started.

And we don't turn back.

"Those who departed from among us, were not of us in the first place." -Jesus

And that is the honest truth, the LORD of Hosts is my witness.

This post was edited by Torm1 on Mar 2 2011 09:58pm

Where does Jesus say that? Do you believe in the doctrine of men, "once saved always saved"?

The doctrine of men?

Once saved always saved is right. To deny that would be to deny the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross, once for all. The very core of the Christian Faith.

He rose from the dead.

Torm1, in post 112 you said this and I quote, ""Those who departed from among us, were not of us in the first place." -Jesus

Can you tell me where Jesus said this?

Discussing "once saved always saved" will be rather lengthy. I might start a topic on that one shortly. I know there are a lot of examples of God warning about loosing salvation.

Often people who support, "once saved always saved" will say, “Well, he never was really saved in the first place.” Yet, it is clear that a person can know the way of righteousness and escape the sins of the world and then become entangled in the world of sin once again. This is why Christians must never let their guard down. “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour” (I Peter 5:8).

If a Christian could not become lost, there would be no danger from Satan. We could sin willfully and not be worried about our salvation.

The Bible clearly teaches the reality and possibility of apostasy. Jesus said, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt 10:22). Does it not makes sense to say, "he who does not endure to the end will not be saved." To "endure" is to persevere. The meaning is obvious; Jesus is commanding faithfulness in order to receive salvation.

Don't forget my question of telling us where Jesus says, "Those who departed from among us, were not of us in the first place." -Jesus

Why would you sin willfully when Jesus Christ has saved you and He's living through you. Thats why we have a new nature, putting on the new man. Is it not? "If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation, the old has gone, and the new has come."

And here is the verse:



They were actually talking about that exact issue on a biblically sound radio broadcast the other day.

It seems there are a few problems here, kissofdeath. We are indeed to rebuke each other if something is wrong (privately if possible) and Jesus said we would "know them by their fruits." I am concerned, and I think now that I have stated my biblical opinion on these two things, it would be best for you to either accept it or reject it. I know that you want to do things biblically soundly, so it should be easy for you to make up your mind on these issues, but just make sure you are being led by the Holy Spirit in your descisions.

This post was edited by Torm1 on Mar 2 2011 11:00pm

Do you think 1 John 2:19 is not talking about people who were saved. You need to go back and read 18 through 23.

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Torm1, this is clearly talking about anyone who did not believe Jesus was the Son of God. Anti means against, if you are not for Christ you are Antichrist. It has nothing, absolutly nothing to do with someone who was saved, much less saved then fell away. I'm sorry and I mean no disrespect but I believe you are mistaken in your interpretation of this passage.

If someone comes up to you and says: "I used to be a Christian when I was younger, but grew out of it." or "I used to be a Christian" in general,

They weren't truly saved in the first place. Its an actual permanent radical change.

This post was edited by Torm1 on Mar 2 2011 11:43pm

How can you say that baptism of the holy spirit ended with the apostles?
Acts 11: 15-17 Clearly shows that is false.
I dont even think you can argue this one

I discussed this in the other post. It actually ended with Cornelius. Baptism by the Holy Spirit was only done two times in the history of the bible. Once was with the Apostles and the other was with Cornelius. You are correct, it did not end with the apostles but did with Cornelius. What did end with the apostles "and what I was actually thinking about at the time" was the laying on of the hands to recieve the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I would challenge anyone to show me where else in the bible was baptism administered by the Holy Spirit. That is, where else did the Holy Spirit perform the baptism.