I have researched blasphemy of the holy spirit quite a bit, and its an ongoing process that the unsaved take part in.

A saved person, or someone who is going to be saved won't blaspheme the holy spirit.

I am not referring to blaspheming the Holy Spirit, btw, just the things in the verse I quoted.

Salvation comes through grace and repentance of sins. If one continues to live a life of sin intentionally, they do not have that salvation, whether it is immediately following the "being saved" or years later. Being saved, that is, the elect, is not a free ticket to heaven, any more for us as it was for Israel whom continually turned away from God in the OT (and still today). One could be saved, but then turn away from God, lose that salvation, and theoretically return back. I haven't at least seen anything to indicate you cannot return back after making the mistakes again, but do see a lot of good evidence to suggest this is possible (eg, Jonah and Nineveh, which was part of Israel, eg, God's chosen ones/the elect).

The prodigal son!

Sorry, yes, through Jesus, which was implied, but not stated. My apologies.

In any case, whether or not a scenario like this means the person was not originally saved, I'm not sure, but I think it'll probably boil down to semantics.

I agree I think. I feel the new Christians who are just saved and immediately go back into sin can still return. (The seed that was planted was immediately stolen by the enemy, never had time to grow in the Lord.) The one thing I think that creates the ability to not be able to return is once a Christian becomes Mature (has walked with God, seen His miracles, very understand of the Word, etc.) and turns away (blasphemy is what I feel this is) that it's impossible to become saved, because you've already experienced God and He would have to offer you more than Jesus' death on the cross for you to return. (I for one got saved at a very young age, and knew the Holy Spirit was inside me. But for about 6 years 18-24 (just a few weeks prior) I never denied Christ or anything I just indulged in sin that I knew was wrong and kept my eyes on Jesus but couldn't get out of my sin, Satan had also deceived me into thinking I was unforgiable regardless of what the Word of God says.)

This post was edited by Silenced_Matrix on Mar 15 2012 02:15pm

What scripture do you have to back up the bolded? Trying to follow where you are coming from here. I can't think of any offhand. I can, however, think of many instances where God has given multiple chances to people. God is very merciful.

I'm not saying people won't get multiple chances, I'm just saying if you are a mature Christian (mature takes time, years of experiencing God, years of being in His word, the variable years here is determined by the person, but it could be 30 years for a Christian to get to this mature state, who knows). I myself have been given another chance (the prodigal son like stated is a great parable.) God is VERY merciful. My earthly father is a mature Christian and this is how he explained it to me, you have to do word studies of English to Hebrew because they have multiple meanings (like the words love,war, etc.) so I assume this is how the Holy Spirit explained the verses about blasphemy to Him (and maybe word studies) and he explained it to me without using verses and it aligned with how the Holy Spirit in me felt. (But I will ask him).

But I think as Christians we should talk about these type of things in pm's, debating over Biblical theologies that are of no matter to any one involved is something we shouldn't do. (As long as we all believe the only way to heaven is to be Saved.)

It's hard enough as is to encourage each other and to redeem souls. (You think non-saved people coming in here want anything to do with being a Christian when we can't even get along?)

That being said I love you all and God Bless you all.

I will no longer be debating the discussion other than giving my dad's reply.

I don't think it's harmful to have a discussion about varying views on these things. The church is divided afterall, how can we come together if we don't even understand each other or how our basis for differing beliefs is founded? I have often found that it comes down to semantics, and it really ends up not being anything to fret over (like this case).

I still don't think maturity in Christ has any bearing on whether you can lose your salvation or not. For instance, what if a pastor of many decades at the end of his life turns away from God for whatever reason? Surely he was mature in Christ, so everything they did is just for naught? While we're not saved through deeds but by grace, one would still find it odd to think that this person couldn't turn back towards God before dying, and that God would somehow not accept them back.

I think the bottom line is that until you die, you always have a shot at redemption. Once you die, you are judged, and it is just whatever that judgment may be. Since you don't know when that will be, it's like the story of the thief in the night in the gospels, always be vigilant in Christ! (and pray for those that are not)

First, the thing that Christians don't do is research the Bible as we should and not just claim 1 verse. It's a puzzle and the pieces must be put together. We must know that the OT was written in Hebrew and translated to the closest words we had for there language (sometimes words like love and war have multiple meanings in Hebrew and we only have 1). The New testament was translated from Greek. (Not I am just as guilty about not researching as much as I should, until this was explained to me I believed the unforgivable sin was also not accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior.) This research was done by my dad, not me, this is how he explained it to me although I had to find some of the verses.

Notice the Bible speaks of only one unforgivable sin. I think we all agree upon that.

Let's take a look at this verse.
"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." Hebrews 6:4-6 (NIV)

IMPOSSIBLE, AKA unforgivable.

We take a look at the prodigal son Luke 15:11-32. A parable of a son who was once with the father, than lost, than found. (not very mature in Christ to be able to be saved, than lost than come back and still be accepted).

This person in Hebrews was clearly mature in there walk with Christ, he had tasted of the heavenly gift, shared in the Holy Spirit, tasted the goodness of the word of God and the coming age. An unsaved person DOES not fit into the guidelines of this verse at all, only a saved person. ONE unforgivable sin (impossible aka unforgivable = same sin).
-----
To people who believe that the unforgivable sin is not accepting Jesus Christ as your savior,

Now, let's look at the difference in God's people.

You had the people from Adam-Moses (no way to go to heaven because there was no law and no grace of salvation).
"Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come." - Romans 5:14 NIV (Other than a few, see (1) at bottom).

You had the people from Moses-Jesus (pre death who are under the law).
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." - Romans 10:4 KJV

Than you have the people from Christ's death-Now (under grace of salvation through His death).
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." - Romans 3:28 KJV

Now. When Jesus died he went into the earth and preached to the captives of paradise. How do we know?
"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." - Luke 23:43 (KJV)

Let us do a word translation for paradise in Greek (NT translated from Greek) - park IE an Eden, place future happiness (paradise was closest English word match to the greek definition).

But Paradise is in Heaven right? That is incorrect (until later on as you read).

"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom." - Luke 16:22-23 (KJV)
Now if you would do a translation of Abraham's bosom or even ask someone who is Jewish or knowledgeable in Jewish history, they would say this is translated into the place where the just enjoy the peace of heaven after death (aka "paradise").
"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." - John 20:17 (KJV)
Jesus tells her he has yet to ascend to the Father (in Heaven) but is going there soon, if he didn't ascend, he had to descent.

"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." - 1 Pter 3:19-20 (KJV)
"For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." - 1 Peter 4:6 (KJV)
Talking about souls who were in prison (Not Hell) and dead, those who were disobedient back in the days of Noah (the span of Adam-Moses).

God's nature never changes, he is fair to the people from Adam-Moses because they had no way into heaven and is the same today as he was than.
"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." - James 1:17 (KJV)

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savoir; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:3-4 (KJV)
God wishes for all men to become saved. He was the same than as now. Jesus died and preached to the captives who had died to give them the chance to come to heaven, therefore, how is it possible that the unforgivable sin is not accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior when the captives didn't. God's nature never changed, he was fair to Adam-Moses because there was no way to go to Heaven until God sent someone down to preach to them and accept Jesus as Savior (after death).

We can now also see paradise has moved and is now with God in Heaven.
"How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter." - 2 Corinthians 12:4 (KJV)
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." - Revelations 2:7 (KJV)

(1)(with the exception of a few. Prophet Elijah was the second man to be taken to heaven in a natural body, (2 Kings 2:11), Enoch being the first (Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5; see Enoch) Both now reside in heaven in their natural mortal bodies, having never died! However, they will die their own appointed death on earth as the 'two witnesses' of the future tribulation period (Zacharias 4:11-14; Malachi 4:5-6; Revelation11:3-12;) But also Moses could be a "candidate", because he represented the Law of God, but he died! Than in the book of Zechariah; Chapter 4 there are also 2 other potential candidates (?) to be the 2 witnesses: Zerubbabel & Joshua! SOURCE - http://www.godsoutreachministryint.org/RevivalEndTimeHARVEST2Witnesses.htm)

This post was edited by Silenced_Matrix on Mar 17 2012 12:03am

I think you're being confused as to what blasphemy is. Blasphemy is not "turning away from God".. it's bringing God down to a level that he isn't. Attributing what God is doing (Holy Spirit) to Satan would be blasphemy. I'm not sure what your long article above is proving/not proving.

This post was edited by Dune1 on Mar 17 2012 07:52am