I went and read 1 Corinthians 14 and more. I advise you to do the same for a better understanding. Now I will proceed to tell you why it doesn't still apply.

The apostle Paul writes of various "gifts of the Holy Spirit" in I Corinthians 12-14. Notice the reading in I Corinthians 12:7-11.

"But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit to profit withal. For to one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom; and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit : to another faith, in the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, in the one Spirit; and to another workings of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits; to another various kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretations of tongues; but all these worketh the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each one severally even as He will."

All of these were miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit. That is, they were given directly by the Holy Spirit and enabled the recipient to do things they ordinarily could not. For instance, the gift of prophecy enabled one to "speak for God," for that is what prophecy was. The gift of faith enabled one literally to "move mountains" (Matthew 17:20). The gift of miracles enabled one to do various miraculous things (Acts 3:7,8; 20:9,10; etc.). The gift of tongues dealt with languages. Let us see what they were:

The apostles, on Pentecost, were all "filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance ... We hear them speaking in our tongues the mighty works of God ... Behold, are not all of these that speak Galileans? And how hear we, every man in our own language wherein we were born?" (Acts 2:4,8,11). Notice that the people heard the apostles speaking "in tongues" -- but they were languages which these people had know from birth. But the apostles had never had training to learn the languages.

The apostle Paul also explains: "Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to the unbelieving" (I Corinthians 14:22). If the unbelieving could not understand them, how could it be a "sign" to them? The apostle Paul goes on to reason thus: "But now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, unless i speak to you either by way of revelation, or of knowledge, or of prophesying, or of teaching?" (I Corinthians 14:6). In other words, if others cannot understand what I am saying, my gift is meaningless to them. This makes it clear that the gift of tongues was to enable one to speak in a language he had never learned.

The apostle Paul goes on to discuss these gifts of the Holy Spirit. "Love never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall be done away; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall be done away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part; but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away" (I Corinthians 13:8-10). Of the nine "gifts of the Spirit" which he listed in I Corinthians 12:7-11, the Holy Spirit lists three of these (as representatives of them all), and says they will cease, or be done away. These gifts were each a part of delivering and confirming the Word of God to mankind. When the process was "perfect" (or, complete), then the"parts" were all done away.

Note that the Scriptures do not declare that all faith, knowledge and languages would cease. But that the "gifts of the Spirit" that granted to someone the power to do these things would cease. Today, "faith comes by hearing the Word of God" (Romans 10:17). Knowledge comes from "studying the Word of God" (II Timothy 2:15) and the use of languages comes from one studying those languages. But these were "gifts" of the Spirit as recorded in the New Testament times, given by the Holy Spirit for the special purposes of delivering and confirming God's Word for mankind. As we read, "How shall we escape, if we neglect so great a salvation? which having at the first been spoken through the Lord, was confirmed unto us by them that heard; God also bearing witness with them, both by signs and wonders and by manifold powers, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own Will" (Hebrews 2:3,4).

When His Word was delivered, and confirmed by the miraculous gifts of the Spirit, there was no further need for those gifts. So, they ceased. The abilities named would no longer be a "gift of the Holy Spirit," but would then have to be acquired through natural means.

What were the "tongues" of I Corinthians 12? They were foreign languages which were spoken by inspired men by the power of the Holy Spirit. This is what amazed the hearers -- that these uneducated (in languages) men were able to speak in languages they had never learned (Acts 2:5-12; I Corinthians 14:22). If the "tongues" of I Corinthians 12 were only unintelligible gibberish to the hearers, there would be nothing about them to amaze or confound the unbelieving hearers. But languages which were spoken by men who had never learned them would indeed be a "sign to the unbeliever," which they were. The "tongues" of the Scriptures were know languages, but unknown to the speaker as well. And the so-called "tongues" of religious people today have absolutely no basis in Scriptures.

I might touch on what "the gift" is later.


I'm starting to feel I don't have to defend myself every single time you make an statement attempting to discredit me. Then again, if I don't defend myself people may think you are right when in fact you are very seriously wrong.

you recieve the holy spirit once u are saved
too much 2 read sorry

also kisss i have a question for u
are u trying to prove or disprove christianity to yourself? just wondering.

He believes that baptism with water is necessary for salvation.

not necesarry for salvation
necesarry 2 make it 2 the kingdom of heaven

better 2 ask a pastor than on d2pk

I guess you should read then, you might find the answer to your questions.



I do believe that and God does too since he mentions it many times. It amazes me how people think baptism is not required for salvation. Please read on so you may have a change of heart.

The Bible says there is only one Baptism.

Eph 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

The Bible says it’s in water.

1 Peter 3:20-21
(20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
(21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The Bible says it saves us.

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The Bible says baptism accompanies the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Does it not make sense to say if one does not repent and is not baptized for the remission of sin one WILL NOT receive the gift of the Holy Gost?

The Bible says baptism brings us into contact with the blood of Christ.

Col 2:11-13

1 John 5:8
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

The Bible says baptism places us “in Christ”

Gal 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

The Bible says baptism is a likeness of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

Rom 6:4-5
(4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
(5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

The Bible says baptism is commanded.

Matt 28:19-20
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Acts 10:48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

The Bible says Baptism is necessary

John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. BTW, it goes without saying that if you first do not believe then there is no point being baptised, there would be no point in baptism without belief.

Matt 3:13-15
(13) Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
(14) But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
(15) And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

What Does the Bible say about John's Baptism?

John's baptism was in water

Mark 1:8
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

John 1:26
John answered them, saying, I baptize with water : but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;

John 3:23
And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Acts 11:16
Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water ; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Johns baptism was the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins

Matt 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance : but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Acts 19:4
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Mark 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Luke 3:3
And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Those who refused John's Baptism Rejected the Counsel of God.

Luke 7:29-30
(29) And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
(30) But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.





Please read above and then make your choice if you think baptism is not needed for salvation.

literally nothing you just typed makes me think that the holy spirit is not applicable in our lives today. If we believe the bible we believe the holy spirit dwells in us, you cannot argue this, Paul says it multiple times.
Let me know if you need me to type the verses where paul says "the holy spirit dwells in you". I can think of 2 on the top of my head and with a bit of searching can probably find a couple more.
How does that not still apply?

its hard 2 say whether when God is talking about being baptized with the holy spirit or being baptized in water.
I know you dont have to be baptized to be saved, because it says in the bible he who shall call on the Lord shall be saved.
But I do believe to make it into heaven u have to be saved, baptized in water, and receive the holy ghost, this is heard from a pastor.
None offense to you at all, but I'd learn more toward the word of a pastor who has been annointed by God to preach his word, rather than someones
logical explanation to interpret God's word. God's word is meant to be heard in the spirit, not by the flesh.

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

Indwelling of the Holy Spirit and baptism by the Holy Spirit are not the same. The words Holy Spirit gets use out of context quite a bit. I have to watch myself sometimes to make sure I don't use it the wrong way. I am on break, sitting here taking a look at the forum. I will not have enough time to reply further.

cadizzle I have not forgotten about you.

I have put a section of your post above in bold.

Do you think God is lying when he says the following?

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. BTW, it goes without saying that if you first do not believe then there is no point being baptised, there would be no point in baptism without belief.

1 Peter 3:20-21
(20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. <--------Why doesn't is say "saved by the ark" or "saved by the boat" Don't you think it must have been important for the word WATER to be recognized?
(21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: When the verse says, "The like figure", that is relating baptism to the water. Water saved Noah then like a water baptism saves us now. If not, why not. God is saying it does.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, andbe baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Does it not make sense to say if one does not repent and is not baptized for the remission of sin one WILL NOT receive the gift of the Holy Ghost?

Matt 28:19-20
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. God says to "observe ALL things I have commanded you" not just a few or one. You are correct when you say to "call on the name of the Lord". But, that is not the only thing you need to do.

This post was edited by Kisssofdeath on Mar 7 2011 11:43am

all i have to say is like i said its hard to tell what kind of baptism God is speaking about unless he specifically states its by water because you can be baptized by water or the holy spirit.
Maybe u CAN be baptized in water and to saved, maybe there is more than one way, but if u dont repent its kinda like it was useless. But i know for a fact you dont JUST have to be baptized to be saved because I got saved without water
and i know God is in me. Also, like I stated in my previous post - I'd lean more toward the word of a pastor who has been annointed by God to preach his word in the spirit, rather than someones
logical explanation to interpret God's word in the flesh. God's word is meant to be heard in the spirit, not by the flesh. No disrespect whatsoever to you because I would not want to offend anyone on this forum.

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

This post was edited by cadizzle1392 on Mar 7 2011 02:35pm