Just because you will die in sin does not mean you were born in sin. To sin one must transgress "break" one of Gods commandments. How can a baby, not being accountable do this? LOL, this is a whole another subject. But again.... .

Israel is spoken for...

Romans 11:26 (King James Version) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:



You're response shows an utter lack of understanding of agape and charis.

Obeying the laws of another country does not make you a citizen.

Do you not realize Jesus reunited the dead to the Father in between His death and resurrection!? Do you feel His vexing to assure, all that would come to Him would have a chance!?

Even under the Abraham covenant, if obedience to Torah was possible (to fallen man) and that self-procured obedience was the end all to unite with God; why a required sin sacrifice?

You can't manufacture a relationship with someone without knowing them. You at best become a stalker.

How does my response have anything to do with your reply? My response was about babies being born with sin. How is that possible when a baby cannot sin?

If you love God you will keep his commandments. John 14:15

you so do not have to be baptized. in fact the only one of those verses you cited that hints that baptism saves you is acts 2:38 as it says it gives you the gift of the holy spirit.
"confess with you heart and believe it in your mind that jesus is lord and you are saved"
jesus says that if you love him, you will follow his commandments.

THAT is what you need to be saved

This post was edited by Kamikizzle on Feb 10 2011 12:26pm

can you elaborate on this? are you saying humans are born WITH sin or are born and WILL sin?
if its the former i disagree (as it sounds alot like original sin)
ezekiel 18:20 'the soul who sins shall die. the son shall not suffer the inequity of the father'

Posting in my fan thread =]

"Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Statement of Jesus in Mark 16:15-16). In this verse, Jesus specifically joins faith in the gospel message and baptism to salvation. The two verbs are joined by the conjunction "and" which places equal value on each action as necessary to receive salvation.

"Repent, and every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Peter, preaching the first gospel sermon in Acts 2:38). In this verse, repentance and baptism are joined to the reception of remission of sins and the reception of the Holy Spirit.

I don't see how this could be misunderstood. You need more than Faith, and confession. If you love Jesus keep his commandments is so true, He commanded all men to be baptized and for what...for the remission of sin. There are many many more verses that connect baptism to forgivness, washing away sin and remission of sin. You say I only cited one....if the Bible only did mention one are we to ignore it? Remember, I always bring what I say with love, not for arguement.

You are exactly correct in your understanding of "original sin doctrine of men". Perfect quote of Ezekiel 18:20 to explain your position.

I would advise you to read the Koran and the Bible cover to cover with the standpoint that man creates religion, not god. I am not saying that the bible is false. I am saying that over time every book has been rewritten or translated and lost some meaning. There are even differences between a Catholic and Baptist bible. Yet, both claim to be Christians. This brings me back to the fact that man has created religion and thus religion is flawed. The will of God is his own and each of us must only have faith in what we believe.

What if you believe that the best way to live is to steal, rape, murder, lie, greed, lust, blaspheme, etc?

Everything!

John 14:15-20 (King James Version)

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.


Love there is agape.

That would be my. Seriously, it looks like "me" in the Hellenistic Greek.

(whom the world cannot receive) - note that

Live/life here = zoe and is separate from bios(physical life).




Romans 9:1 (King James Version) I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

Precedence influences the definition.




If your father murders someone, you aren't legally liable for his transgression. You will likely be bestowed aftereffects anyway.

If we never lost dominion over the material universe we were created from, why did Jesus go through so much trouble to rectify that dominion and tell us about it?

-----

Why did the law mention a sin sacrifice? Why were fig leaves insufficient clothing? Why did God kill an animal to clothe them!? Prevenience?

Galatians 5:22-23 (King James Version)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.