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Jan 21 2011 04:20pm
Quote (HarlequinCrest @ Jan 20 2011 07:39am)
For a long time I have considered myself to be an atheist. I have had no faith or belief in god at all. But I believe I am finding faith, and in turn god.
I have a few questions which go out to the beliefs of Christianity in general, and if any of you are well versed, and can help answers these, you may in turn help me find god and christianity.



Is life ultimately just a test? (ultimately our lives & actions determine our fate of heaven or hell don't they?)

If life is a test, how is it that those who repeatedly commit some or not all of the seven deadly sins can be considered good people?
for instance, an extremely overweight and lazy person (gluttony and sloth) can attend church and call themselves a good person in general, not committing any of the other sins.
Are they going to heaven even though they are directly live in disobedience of the words and laws of god?

If someone like the above were to be granted the gift of heaven and everlasting peace, then why would god create rules then allow those that consciously break them into heaven?

Can we really consider ourselves "true" Christians if we do not completely abide by the laws of God himself?

If God is not really that "harsh" to put it in common terms, then why would he make rules for people to live by, only for them to willingly break them, but then ask for forgiveness
and allow his will to be bent, by giving an easement or gray area of "Well, you're sorry for doing it even though you Knew the will of God, and then went against it."

Also, It is (sadly) proven fact that corruption has run through Christianity and religion over the years, Whether it was in the dark ages, or current scandal. How am I to know that the Bible itself
is pure and is as it was intended when it was first written? If Moses did solely write the original 5 books, how can it describe his death, and also describe him as "the most humble man who ever lived.".  There are Tons of other inconsistencies in the bible. Can it not be wrong? the bible teaches that the earth is flat, and it has been amended. If it was incorrect, can it truly be the word of god, and does it truly deserve to be preached and perpetuated?

And what of the classic tales of the bible that are often told to children? Jonah and the whale, Noahs ark? These things are physically impossible, and obviously ridiculous from an outside mutual point of view.
These works of fiction truly cannot be taught as fact can they? Because Story's like that Begin to make me question the validity of the bible itself.

I want you to keep in mind, I truly am not trying to discredit or contest christian beliefs at all. I am trying to understand them so i can embrace them. These are questions i have come across when attempting to
embrace Christianity. Please help me understand. And thank you for your time and insight.


too long to read.
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Jan 21 2011 04:27pm
life is wonderful
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Jan 22 2011 03:28am
Quote (om3ga @ Jan 21 2011 02:52pm)
was my take on how the message of our lord is spread and structured, not yours. sorry for the confusion friend.


I'm getting the idea, you used the word "vagueness" to explain that the good news is universal, to all.

Is that basically, what you are saying?
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Jan 24 2011 01:50pm
Yes. Life if just one big test of faith.

If you repeatedly commit the same crime without repentance your not a man of God.

Only way to the Father is through Jesus. Basically, the only way you will enter heaven is if your KNOW Jesus. Going to church on Sundays and not committing sins does not mean you know Jesus.

The Bible was written by God, not by Moses, apostles or any of them. Hence, it's known as the Word of God.

For all the supernatural events that happened. "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." -Mathew 19:26

No one can be called a "true" Christian. This would mean they are perfect. It's everyone's struggle to follow the footsteps of Jesus.
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Jan 24 2011 10:10pm
we are his creation, he can do whatever he wants to do with us but he gave us free will to begin with.
in this world we call life and earth...yes its a test...but what purpose do we really have thinking that we are in this world without it's creator?
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Jan 25 2011 02:05am
Quote (rlebar @ Jan 21 2011 11:21am)
My answers are bolded.


Thank you for tackling my questions individually and directly. Even if your answers are short, They are helping me truly understand what Christianity is all about.

Quote (red_man_27 @ Jan 24 2011 12:50pm)
Yes. Life if just one big test of faith.

If you repeatedly commit the same crime without repentance your not a man of God.

Only way to the Father is through Jesus. Basically, the only way you will enter heaven is if your KNOW Jesus. Going to church on Sundays and not committing sins does not mean you know Jesus.

The Bible was written by God, not by Moses, apostles or any of them. Hence, it's known as the Word of God.

For all the supernatural events that happened. "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."  -Mathew 19:26

No one can be called a "true" Christian. This would mean they are perfect. It's everyone's struggle to follow the footsteps of Jesus.


Thanks for your input as well. From what i'm grasping, (and correct me if i'm wrong) being a Christian isn't all about "followingthe rules", and studying the bible 'til your eyes bleed. in the end, its about having a positive effect and outlook on life, and above all else, simply to have doubt free faith. To truly trust and believe in God and his divine plans for earth and all existence.
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Jan 25 2011 02:12am
Quote (HarlequinCrest @ Jan 25 2011 03:05am)
Thank you for tackling my questions individually and directly. Even if your answers are short, They are helping me truly understand what Christianity is all about.

Thanks for your input as well. From what i'm grasping, (and correct me if i'm wrong) being a Christian isn't all about "followingthe rules", and studying the bible 'til your eyes bleed. in the end, its about having a positive effect and outlook on life, and above all else, simply to have doubt free faith. To truly trust and believe in God and his divine plans for earth and all existence.


If I may...

Does my first response, make any more sense to you now? <3
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Jan 25 2011 05:35pm
Quote (WhirlingDervish @ Jan 25 2011 01:12am)
If I may...

Does my first response, make any more sense to you now? <3


It sure does. But those more lax ideals do not hold completely true to the bile.

I know I believe in God, and a Supreme creator. But what I've really come to terms with and understand now,
is my doubts with the Bible itself. I just don't think that Christianity is right for me when it all comes back to the bible. A document which has
been altered, proven incorrect, and safeguarded by people who (and I dont mean all) have been corrupt themselves, as man is imperfect, so too
are and were those that have passed the bible along throughout the ages of time. I have complete faith in God, just not in this book. I mean to insult nobody,
and these are my own personal beliefs and conclusions. Which are nowhere near permanent, they are answers only I can come up with for myself and answers
applicable only to my opinion. I believe the messages in the bible are noteworthy and positive, but to regard them as absolute undeniable truth taken from the divine creator himself,
personally that seems a bit foolish.
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Feb 2 2011 08:47pm
Quote (teekay819 @ Jan 24 2011 11:10pm)
we are his creation, he can do whatever he wants to do with us but he gave us free will to begin with.
in this world we call life and earth...yes its a test...but what purpose do we really have thinking that we are in this world without it's creator?



God knows all and sees all and is all-powerful.


God makes man, god frees man to the world.

Man eats forbidden fruit because of curiosity, man falls out of favor.

Man is wretched and wicked, man is mass-murdered, but Noah and his family is saved.





So God created man with free will, and if a man is naturally gay, (which is a fact of nature, by the way), then man will go to hell if he does not suppress his own nature?
God knew someone would sin so that makes God a sadist?

God makes man homosexual, condemns him for his nature. Makes no sense to me :(
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Feb 2 2011 09:17pm
I'm going to answer all of your questions in sequence. If you do indeed truly with all your heart and all your mind seek God, He lives up to His promises.

Quote
Is life ultimately just a test? (ultimately our lives & actions determine our fate of heaven or hell don't they?)


In a way it is, but our initial actions don't determine it.

Every human being that has ever been born has been born into "Sin" we are sinners from birth. When we come to that place in our life where we follow Jesus Christ, we are re-born. Jesus then takes the lead and we go our way and sin no more because its Him living, not us. We have died to self.

"If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has gone and the new has come." "Therefore, put off the old man (the old way of the flesh) putting on Christ."

Quote
If life is a test, how is it that those who repeatedly commit some or not all of the seven deadly sins can be considered good people?
for instance, an extremely overweight and lazy person (gluttony and sloth) can attend church and call themselves a good person in general, not committing any of the other sins.
Are they going to heaven even though they are directly live in disobedience of the words and laws of god?


This relates to the previous question in a way, though I think the "Seven Deadly Sins" is some sort of a Catholic thing.

First of all, going to church won't save you. Neither will being a vegetarian or any of these other things.

"In the sight of God, our good works are as filthy rags." Jesus said: "There is none good but God."

So its not a matter of whether we have "kept the law" or "been a so-called good person." since the state of Man's heart is evil and always will be.

Which is why we need Jesus Christ. Its only because of His righteousness that we even have a chance.

Quote
If someone like the above were to be granted the gift of heaven and everlasting peace, then why would god create rules then allow those that consciously break them into heaven?


Being saved was never a matter of "Following God's List of Rules" even in the Old Testament, no one was ever saved by works. "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness."

Its always been a matter of God's grace... All we can do is reach out with the beggar's hand and hope that He might pardon us.

Quote
Can we really consider ourselves "true" Christians if we do not completely abide by the laws of God himself?


The whole thing that Jesus was getting across to the pharisees was that they could not abide by the laws of God. The whole reason for the 10 commandements was that no one in history has ever been able to keep them, and is therefore guilty before a just and holy God. The purpose of the law is to show us our sin nature, and seek forgiveness.

The pharisees who Jesus stood against thought that they were going to be saved by their own "Works of righteousness." when in actuality they were condemning themselves.

Jesus did say to the woman who had committed adultery and was about to be stoned to death: "Where are your accusers?" They were gone. Then He said to her: "I don't condemn you either, but now go your way and sin no more."

Quote
If God is not really that "harsh" to put it in common terms, then why would he make rules for people to live by, only for them to willingly break them, but then ask for forgiveness
and allow his will to be bent, by giving an easement or gray area of "Well, you're sorry for doing it even though you Knew the will of God, and then went against it."


If there was no free will, there would be no such thing as "Love"

Quote
Also, It is (sadly) proven fact that corruption has run through Christianity and religion over the years, Whether it was in the dark ages, or current scandal. How am I to know that the Bible itself
is pure and is as it was intended when it was first written? If Moses did solely write the original 5 books, how can it describe his death, and also describe him as "the most humble man who ever lived.".  There are Tons of other inconsistencies in the bible. Can it not be wrong? the bible teaches that the earth is flat, and it has been amended. If it was incorrect, can it truly be the word of god, and does it truly deserve to be preached and perpetuated?


Well to start, there is no where in the bible where it says the earth is flat. If you can provide me with that claim, I will send you $10 cash in the mail. If anything, the bible states that the earth is round "He sits above the circle of the Earth"

As far as the bible being exactly as it was written, yes it is supposed to be exactly how it is, there are no inconsistencies. Sure, people have "Cherry-picked" parts of verses and tried to say they are inconsistent with something else, but anyone can take a few words of something "out of context"

Quote
And what of the classic tales of the bible that are often told to children? Jonah and the whale, Noahs ark? These things are physically impossible, and obviously ridiculous from an outside mutual point of view.
These works of fiction truly cannot be taught as fact can they? Because Story's like that Begin to make me question the validity of the bible itself.


We have submarines, don't we? How would you have described a submarine thousands of years ago?

And as for the ark, I'm sure you could figure that one out, there are in fact, many logical possibilities.

Quote
I want you to keep in mind, I truly am not trying to discredit or contest christian beliefs at all. I am trying to understand them so i can embrace them. These are questions i have come across when attempting to
embrace Christianity. Please help me understand. And thank you for your time and insight.


Good questions. I have asked some of the same ones.

I hope you enjoy reading my answers as much as you enjoyed asking them.

This post was edited by Torm1 on Feb 2 2011 09:20pm
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