Hm yeah. Some people like that give Christians a bad name imho. I used to be Christian, but i think i had a couple too many bad experiences like that. I sorta became more rebellious and starting thinking for my own also.

My biggest problems were the entire gay marriage, atheists going to hell, etc.


Also, my post is going pretty offtopic. But i dont understand the entire, you have the choice to believe in God or not?

Yet, if you don't believe in God, you spend an eternity in a burning pit or whatever your definition of hell is. What kind of a choice is that?

"If you confess the name of Jesus with your tongue, and believe in your heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, then you shall be saved."

The important point here is that one must believe in their heart. That means sincerely... You can't fake it, and its a permanent radical change that Jesus brings. The person's life turns upside down. If there is no evidence of this, then is the person really saved?

Church won't save you.

This post was edited by Torm1 on Dec 14 2010 09:47pm

I'd like to dispute the permanence of that change. I became a Christian while in high school and it changed my entire outlook on life and the world. I saw everything in a new light, and truly believed in everything.

Now, less than ten years later, I'm completely indifferent. Luckily, once you repent and confess Jesus is Lord, you're going to heaven, and you can't lose your salvation. So, that's fun. No matter how religious or non-religious I am now or in the future, I'll still be going to the Christian Heaven, provided it's real.

Religion won't save you. Church won't save you. Jesus said that those who turned away and left, were never truly saved in the first place. Something has to happen, something real, and you will know it.

Jesus is coming back soon, and not everyone who says to him, Lord, Lord, is going to be saved...

Blessings in the coming times. We are living in the last days.

This post was edited by Torm1 on Dec 14 2010 11:14pm

iso verse?


Romans 10:9-13 disagrees with you.



Seems pretty clear that if you believe with your heart that Jesus was the Son of God and that he died on the cross as penance for the sins of all mankind and that Jesus defeated sin by being raised from the dead, then you're saved. And if you believe that once you are saved you can never lose that salvation (John 10:28 says "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."), then even future non-belief won't disqualify you from going to heaven.

This post was edited by bentherdonethat on Dec 14 2010 11:34pm

None of these support your claim that if you turned away and left, you were never saved in the first place.

i agree with the first part of what you said.

however more devout christians than yourself have been making the claim that we are living in the last days and have been doing so for the last 2000 years.

you'll learn in your walk that while witnessing it's important to know to whom you are speaking. not everyone responds well to scare tactics.



i never took you as someone who took the bible too literally.

imo it's not something you should try to over-assess in the attempt to discover some loophole worth exploiting.

i did so for sometime then i realized i was only attempting to justify my actions. plus as an intelligent and ultimately influential individual you are responsible for the words you preach, whether it seems logical to you or not. one of the worst possible things you could do is lead one of his flock astray.

Every man is justified in his own eyes, the Lord ponders the heart.

Yeah, in the past I was a devout born again Christian for about four years, and after that point I slowly started to not feel anything when I went to church or read the Bible or prayed, so I stopped actively believing. It's not that I disbelieve, really, it's just that I don't have any strong feelings either way any more.

The hibernating Christian in me knows full well that (if Christianity is true) works and actions alone are nowhere near enough to get into Heaven, and that the only way is to humble yourself to God and seek His forgiveness. If other people feel something still, I'd encourage those feelings, because spirituality is life-enriching for those who feel it.

It's possible (if not likely) that some of my posts here are influenced by some sort of jealousy that I don't get anything out of practicing religion anymore, but I do mean it when I say I don't mean to dissuade anyone from believing. Besides, on an internet forum have you ever known anyone to change their mind about a topic they believe in? If anything, reading another viewpoint only strengthens their previously held beliefs.

yeah i hear you. i'm the biggest skeptic you'll probably ever meet. I wont believe anything i hear/read unless the person telling me is an expert ( i don't use that term loosely) in that particular field at which time i pretty much blindly believe it.

however there are many people who are easily influenced, consciously and subconsciously.

i don't want there to be any delusions about me however. i do shit and say shit that is pretty fucked up. i'm the last person who should be taken too seriously. it's probably cause i mess up so much that i can see how i have influenced people. iono i'm rambling at this point. i haven't slept in a while... haha

This post was edited by zeratul87 on Dec 15 2010 12:46am