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Jun 20 2010 11:53pm
Quote (tagged4nothing @ Jun 20 2010 10:20pm)
You can live how you like. I should correct my words and say it is my opinion that it is stupid to live so blindly. To live this way only to say, "Well if I'm wrong at least I don't go to hell" is not a Christian view.(Again my opinion) This is to live in a mild case of fear.
I once asked my dad this question...(he is devote Christian)
If you were to go to Heaven in the end and me and mom were to be sent off to hell... Would you leave us behind without batting an eye?
Without hesitating he said yes. Blind Christian faith states you love your "chance of a faith" more than the people who actually love you.
I could not leave anyone I truly love behind. If the punishment is eternal suffering. So be it, I would feel better suffering knowing I am suffering for the ones I love than leaving them alone.
I have a hope that everyone will go to Heaven(if it exists) and it will be a forgive and forget. Nothing will be perfect without my best friend or family there. Nothing can be perfect for my friends or family if their friends and family are not there.
Even if I hate my family's friends with a passion. They would be sad for them not to be there(assuming we keep our individuality and mind). If EVERYONE is not there. It cannot be perfect and will only lead to sadness leading to sin. We must be wiped of our individuality for us to forget these souls living in torment while we live in mansions.

Forgive and forget. This is the only thing to make sense to me.
You tell your dying loved one that does not believe in Christ that he/she deserves death and you will happily move on while they suffer. Could you? It would be cowardice to think it and not say it.


I don't live by blind faith as you call it. My faith is justified every day of my life. I said I had rather live for Christ and be wrong than not live for Him and be wrong. I know I am not wrong, however.
Each person has a choice to make. I would hate to see any of my loved ones go to hell. With that said, I would not choose to go to hell so they would have someone to hang out with. My father is a good example. He has been to church, he has heard the Word. He has been witnessed to by dozens of people. He still elects not to ask Christ to forgive him, he refuses to make a profession of faith.
If he doesnt repent, I am confident he will go to hell. Is that going to keep me from wanting to go to Heaven? No way.

Heaven is a perfect place. I honestly dont think the people there will have a rememberence of worldly things. It would be too sad. I think we will have a new mind and a new body. There will be no sorrow, no pain, no hunger.

I would never tell anyone they deserve death. I would tell them the consequences of not getting themselves prepared for the after life. I certainly would not happily move on. It would be sad to see a loved one die without salvation. Again, they and you have a decision to make. I can only sow the seed of salvation. The Holy Spirit has to water it and make it grow.

I hope this clears up my position.

I will add this, if anyone could get out of Hell this very minute and leave whomever behind, I am confident they would take the offer immediately. I also offer this thought, if someone you knew could speak to you from Hell, I am confident they would tell you to avoid it at all cost.
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Jun 21 2010 12:47am
Quote (BigDuke6 @ Jun 21 2010 01:53am)
I don't live by blind faith as you call it. My faith is justified every day of my life. I said I had rather live for Christ and be wrong than not live for Him and be wrong. I know I am not wrong, however.
Each person has a choice to make. I would hate to see any of my loved ones go to hell. With that said, I would not choose to go to hell so they would have someone to hang out with. My father is a good example. He has been to church, he has heard the Word. He has been witnessed to by dozens of people. He still elects not to ask Christ to forgive him, he refuses to make a profession of faith.
If he doesnt repent, I am confident he will go to hell. Is that going to keep me from wanting to go to Heaven? No way.

Heaven is a perfect place. I honestly dont think the people there will have a rememberence of worldly things. It would be too sad. I think we will have a new mind and a new body. There will be no sorrow, no pain, no hunger.

I would never tell anyone they deserve death. I would tell them the consequences of not getting themselves prepared for the after life. I certainly would not happily move on. It would be sad to see a loved one die without salvation. Again, they and you have a decision to make. I can only sow the seed of salvation. The Holy Spirit has to water it and make it grow.

I hope this clears up my position.

I will add this, if anyone could get out of Hell this very minute and leave whomever behind, I am confident they would take the offer immediately. I also offer this thought, if someone you knew could speak to you from Hell, I am confident they would tell you to avoid it at all cost.


Some of your points I found good ones. Also let me state that anything I said was not an accusation towards you personally. I also must state I do not find it a possibility to "hang out" in hell. This is my perspective. If you lose remembrance of your loved ones, what is the point of caring? If we are born anew then we would not have our individuality. Why would you want to lose that? That will be the one thing of mine I would want to take with me.(I must also state I am typing from an 18wheel truck bouncing down the road and is hard to keep focus and type correctly.) I pray for a place where we all go. A god that shows understanding and compassion for ALL of his creatures. No one should be left behind due to using the brain to "God" gave us to try learn. It is man's instinct to want to just know. This is very difficult to relate my point right now. I'll come back to this when I can focus.
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Jun 21 2010 07:46am
Quote (tagged4nothing @ Jun 21 2010 01:47am)
Some of your points I found good ones. Also let me state that anything I said was not an accusation towards you personally. I also must state I do not find it a possibility to "hang out" in hell. This is my perspective. If you lose remembrance of your loved ones, what is the point of caring? If we are born anew then we would not have our individuality. Why would you want to lose that? That will be the one thing of mine I would want to take with me.(I must also state I am typing from an 18wheel truck bouncing down the road and is hard to keep focus and type correctly.) I pray for a place where we all go. A god that shows understanding and compassion for ALL of his creatures. No one should be left behind due to using the brain to "God" gave us to try learn. It is man's instinct to want to just know. This is very difficult to relate my point right now. I'll come back to this when I can focus.


Get off the cpu and grab that wheel man!! You may be coming upon a little old man driving at 30 mph.

Be safe
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Jun 21 2010 07:53am
Quote (BigDuke6 @ Jun 21 2010 09:46am)
Get off the cpu and grab that wheel man!! You may be coming upon a little old man driving at 30 mph.

Be safe


hehe. I am not driving. Light has reached the horizon though and I can focus slightly better. Anyways, I don't want to make my words cheap by drawing too much into them. But, back to subject, it is my belief that we should not accept something so important as the belief of Christianity without being agnostic about the subject as if you were never taught it. A lot of people believe what they are taught at an early age because this is what we know. To say you "know" Christianity is true in it's entirety is a very bold statement and I would like to know what would cause you to come to this decision.
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Jun 21 2010 09:26am
Quote (tagged4nothing @ Jun 21 2010 08:53am)
hehe. I am not driving. Light has reached the horizon though and I can focus slightly better. Anyways, I don't want to make my words cheap by drawing too much into them. But, back to subject, it is my belief that we should not accept something so important as the belief of Christianity without being agnostic about the subject as if you were never taught it. A lot of people believe what they are taught at an early age because this is what we know. To say you "know" Christianity is true in it's entirety is a very bold statement and I would like to know what would cause you to come to this decision.


I am no great philosopher. I am no great orator. I can only offer this:

I agree that people often believe what they are taught at an early age. However, there are many people in many countries that have left behind everything they were taught as a child and chose to follow Christ, Budda, Allah, or perhaps Santa Claus, I dont know.

In my four years of college, I heard so much on evolution. The big bang theory, the pulsating theory, and what ever the other one was. There were dozens of people I met, all of whom came from different backgrounds, religions, religious intolerance, schools of thought, etc. I felt confused for quite some time about what I really believed. There were so many outside factors that actually challenged what I was taught as a child. I read, listened, and done a lot of soul searching. The one item that caused my faith to be tested the most was a zoology class I had my first semester. Everything they taught seemed logical from a scientific perspective.

I spoke with a pastor friend about my inner confusion. He said the following and it hit my like a ton of bricks, "If you can't believe the first five words of the Bible, you can't believe any of it". Of course the first five words are In the beginning God created.

I do believe the Bible, so by faith, I put the whole evolution thing behind me and decided to move on.

[B]To say you "know" Christianity is true in it's entirety is a very bold statement and I would like to know what would cause you to come to this decision./B]

This is hard to answer in a way that a non believer would understand. It is what makes me a believer and others a non believer. It is the difference in me and you. It all comes down to faith.

Answered prayer to me is an answered prayer. To others, it is coincidence.

To be a drunk for fifteen years and beg God to take away the craving so I could better serve Him and be a better husband, father, co worker, etc is the best example I can give. I was able to stop cold turkey, from that very moment. No more cravings, no more temptations, no urge to drink. The prayer was answered immediately. No waiting. I drank every day for years. No more. God is that powerful. There was no way human assistance would have worked. I could not do it on my own.

The power of the Holy Spirit can not be described in words. Words cant do it justice.

I think a person has to have a relationship with God to fully understand how one could say that Christianity is the real deal. I can't justify it to where someone that needed a physical sign to believe, would ever believe. Jesus performed many miracles while on earth. People saw them and still didnt believe.

I really dont know how I can further elaborate on this matter. hopefully somone else can chime in and expound.
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Jun 21 2010 10:18am
Quote (BigDuke6 @ Jun 21 2010 11:26am)
I am no great philosopher. I am no great orator. I can only offer this:

I agree that people often believe what they are taught at an early age. However, there are many people in many countries that have left behind everything they were taught as a child and chose to follow Christ, Budda, Allah, or perhaps Santa Claus, I dont know.

In my four years of college, I heard so much on evolution. The big bang theory, the pulsating theory, and what ever the other one was. There were dozens of people I met, all of whom came from different backgrounds, religions, religious intolerance, schools of thought, etc. I felt confused for quite some time about what I really believed. There were so many outside factors that actually challenged what I was taught as a child. I read, listened, and done a lot of soul searching.  The one item that caused my faith to be tested the most was a zoology class I had my first semester. Everything they taught seemed logical from a scientific perspective.

I spoke with a pastor friend about my inner confusion. He said the following and it hit my like a ton of bricks, "If you can't believe the first five words of the Bible, you can't believe any of it". Of course the first five words are In the beginning God created.

I do believe the Bible, so by faith, I put the whole evolution thing behind me and decided to move on.

[B]To say you "know" Christianity is true in it's entirety is a very bold statement and I would like to know what would cause you to come to this decision./B]

This is hard to answer in a way that a non believer would understand. It is what makes me a believer and others a non believer. It is the difference in me and you. It all comes down to faith.

Answered prayer to me is an answered prayer. To others, it is coincidence.

To be a drunk for fifteen years and beg God to take away the craving so I could better serve Him and be a better husband, father, co worker, etc is the best example I can give. I was able to stop cold turkey, from that very moment. No more cravings, no more temptations, no urge to drink. The prayer was answered immediately. No waiting. I drank every day for years. No more. God is that powerful. There was no way human assistance would have worked. I could not do it on my own.

The power of the Holy Spirit can not be described in words. Words cant do it justice.

I think a person has to have a relationship with God to fully understand how one could say that Christianity is the real deal. I can't justify it to where someone that needed a physical sign to believe, would ever believe. Jesus performed many miracles while on earth. People saw them and still didnt believe.

I really dont know how I can further elaborate on this matter. hopefully somone else can chime in and expound.


Very insightful. Somewhat touching, but not an experience of my own. I cannot call you wrong. I can only say I will remain agnostic and question all that comes my way until I believe(if I find it logically acceptable to me).
I wish you a good day as I have nothing more to add at this point and will continue on my current path and see where it leads me.
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Jun 21 2010 10:28am
Quote (tagged4nothing @ Jun 21 2010 11:18am)
Very insightful. Somewhat touching, but not an experience of my own. I cannot call you wrong. I can only say I will remain agnostic and question all that comes my way until I believe(if I find it logically acceptable to me).
I wish you a good day as I have nothing more to add at this point and will continue on my current path and see where it leads me.


Be safe and have a great day.

Thank you for a civilized and respectful discussion.
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Jun 21 2010 10:38am
Quote (BigDuke6 @ Jun 21 2010 12:28pm)
Be safe and have a great day.

Thank you for a civilized and respectful discussion.


No my friend, thank you. It is not often someone see's passed a signature enough to give a proper debate.
Jul 16 2010 12:33pm
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