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Jun 14 2010 10:05pm
Quote (Keasbey_Nights @ Jun 14 2010 09:28am)
heres the thing, yes, they had to have faith, but:

(also,i dont think "saved" is the correct word, due to the fact that it is a Christian word, more-or-less and at the point before Jesus died, Christianity didn't exsist yet.)

back then when someone sinned, they had to make a burnt offering, a sacrafice, and go into crazy prayer to get that black filth washed away.

Then Jesus, the ultimate sacrifice, and the ultimate savior took over that role.


I still think 'saved' was the proper word. Cause I said "saved by God", not by Jesus ;)

I think that God took it on himself to save people if they had so much faith to believe in him, before Jesus came along.

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Jun 15 2010 11:44pm
Quote (njaguar @ Jun 5 2010 07:50am)
It's not that there was no salvation prior to Jesus, it's that the methods for achieving it were just different (because man was different at that time). Most of this is spelled out fairly clearly in the Old Testament. There were specific laws and guidelines to follow, including the steps to receive forgiveness and be cleansed of sin (which includes many different types of sin, and the steps involved to be cleansed of it varied with each type of sin). Also, Christianity was originally Judaism, and it's important to note that Jesus marks the beginning of Christianity, as was prophesied in the Old Testament in Judaism (which still uses the OT, but does not believe Jesus ever and has not yet returned).


Check out Leviticus. Law after law on sacrifice. It is a tough read but shows in detail what Paul is referring to above.
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Jun 17 2010 07:02pm
Quote (njaguar @ Jun 5 2010 08:50am)
It's not that there was no salvation prior to Jesus, it's that the methods for achieving it were just different (because man was different at that time). Most of this is spelled out fairly clearly in the Old Testament. There were specific laws and guidelines to follow, including the steps to receive forgiveness and be cleansed of sin (which includes many different types of sin, and the steps involved to be cleansed of it varied with each type of sin). Also, Christianity was originally Judaism, and it's important to note that Jesus marks the beginning of Christianity, as was prophesied in the Old Testament in Judaism (which still uses the OT, but does not believe Jesus ever and has not yet returned).


Yes, but don't you believe it to be rather unfortunate that the souls of the past were given an inadequate form of salvation? The Father can absolutely not look upon sin; because of this, he sent his son to save man from their sinful actions. The Father knew that the current methods of salvation were not enough; in fact, scholars believe it to be quite difficult to enter heaven before the time of Jesus Christ. In short, cleansing the soul was difficult in the Old Testament.

Further, it is hardly just that those in the time of the Old Testament faced difficult methods, while those in the New Testament and beyond simply need ask forgiveness for sin, and it is forgiven, save blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. It is one of the great unanswered questions in Christian Lore. Is there justice for those before the Son sacrificed himself? Some believe those who existed before the New Testament will be judged differently than those who existed after the Old Testament. On Judgment Day, they may receive a different judgment; however, this opens the floor for where the soul goes after death -- either straight to heaven, or in limbo until the return of Jesus Christ. There are many questions, with too few answers.
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Jun 17 2010 08:52pm
Quote (Epion @ 17 Jun 2010 20:02)
Yes, but don't you believe it to be rather unfortunate that the souls of the past were given an inadequate form of salvation?  The Father can absolutely not look upon sin; because of this, he sent his son to save man from their sinful actions.  The Father knew that the current methods of salvation were not enough; in fact, scholars believe it to be quite difficult to enter heaven before the time of Jesus Christ.  In short, cleansing the soul was difficult in the Old Testament.

Further, it is hardly just that those in the time of the Old Testament faced difficult methods, while those in the New Testament and beyond simply need ask forgiveness for sin, and it is forgiven, save blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.  It is one of the great unanswered questions in Christian Lore.  Is there justice for those before the Son sacrificed himself?  Some believe those who existed before the New Testament will be judged differently than those who existed after the Old Testament.  On Judgment Day, they may receive a different judgment; however, this opens the floor for where the soul goes after death -- either straight to heaven, or in limbo until the return of Jesus Christ.  There are many questions, with too few answers.


Not at all. The analogy that comes to mind is raising a child; if you don't teach them when they're children about rules, boundaries, respect, etc, then you pretty much have no chance once they reach adults. You can't have a rational conversation with a child that is throwing a temper tantrum, it just doesn't work, and other methods of discipline are required to remedy the situation. The example set forth by God in the OT leads up to Jesus, as was prophesied. It's easy for you to place a blanket statement over it, but you forget that thousands of years passed between the OT occurrences and the AD 0. I find it extremely arrogant of you to try and place any sorts of labels on the justification or reasoning behind the methods of which God presented himself, especially given your narcissistic (and small minded) view of the world, history with relation to mankind throughout the ages, and religion in general.

The OT describes this pretty well, and there are many portions of the NT that help explain the transitions.
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Jun 17 2010 09:13pm
The way that it was explained to me is this.

before the comming of Christ, we were just as corrupt and flawed as we are today. in order to make atonements for our sins, The Jewish people of that time would sacrifice animals (a proper sacrifice would have been the best of a flock or herd) to God, so that they could recieve forgiveness.

Jesus's comming happened because God faced a problem, and that was, that he could not Go against his word, which commanded that we live by the ten commandments, but that is impossible for we humans. God cannot go against his word, i.e. the Bible, because it is a direct reflection of his nature, and God never contradicts himself, and is an unchangeing God, so what he says is essencially eternal. Basicly Jesus was not a change in the rules, but he was sent here to be a perfectly sinless sacrifice for the sins of all men who ever have been, who are, and who will be, in essence it took the need for sacrificeing animals out of the picture, because Jesus now fulfulls that role.
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