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Oct 21 2024 12:17pm
The guy is romans 4:5 is not doing any works. But he has saving faith.
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Dec 15 2024 09:29am
Quote (Ariana @ Oct 13 2024 09:16pm)
My understanding would come down to that people are not performing works to be saved, they perform works because they are saved. To live life like christ means you probably tend to help people, but most don't do it hoping to earn "points" or because they feel they have to do so in order to be saved. Selfless giving and kindness to others is not about pride it's just about being a reflection of God and an example to others. The Gospel says we are to spread the name of Jesus and the best way to do that is by example not by preaching. If you can glorify God with your works, that's a good way to help others find God. I don't think people go to church because they are "Trusting in their works"? I go to church for community and to bond with other believers. I read the bible to seek to understand and build a personal relationship with Jesus, who is the Word. I help others because it's the right thing to do and it creates an opportunity to talk about God. But nowhere in my mind am I doing works to earn salvation. Jesus says If you love me, keep my commandments. The new covenant is the law written on our hearts. Love one another is the sum of the commandments, so to be loving to others is to show love to Jesus. On the same token I try to temper my works with faith, and try to not participate in any activities or works that do not glorify God. It's a demonstration of my belief but I am not saved by my works or by following any rules or laws. I behave because of my faith, and to show respect for the gift of Life I've been given.


Well written. Love it.
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Dec 15 2024 12:52pm
Quote (g0spel @ Oct 21 2024 09:39am)
False. It is a verse stating that works do not produce salvation, which is what Romans 4 is about as a whole. You are confusing that with faith producing works, they are not the same dynamic.


here is a hebrew roots perspective of romans 4 5

faith and righteousness in the hebrew scriptures tanakh righteousness is not just a legal concept but also a relational one. its about a faithful trusting relationship with god ywhw. the hebrew word for faith emunah conveys the idea of firm steadfast trust and loyalty which is linked with obedience to gods commandments. in this context pauls statement that faith is credited as righteousness echoes the example of abraham the subject of romans 4 in genesis 15 6 where his trust in gods promises was credited to him as righteousness. for those in the hebrew roots movement this aligns with the idea that trust in god not works alone is the path to righteousness.

justification of the ungodly in the hebrew roots context the ungodly can be seen as those who are outside of covenant relationship with god. just as abraham who was considered ungodly a gentile not yet a part of israel was justified by faith the hebrew roots perspective teaches that salvation and justification are available to all through faith in god. this justification however doesnt negate the importance of obeying gods commandments torah but it recognizes that justification comes first through trust in gods grace and mercy not through the works of the law alone.

trusting gods promises abrahams faith was not just a mental ascent but a trusting action that led him to live in obedience to gods commands including his willingness to offer his son isaac. in the hebrew roots view this is a crucial aspect true faith leads to walking in obedience to gods torah as shown by abrahams example. paul is not saying that the law torah is irrelevant but rather that faith is the means by which one is brought into relationship with god and through that relationship obedience to his commands flows naturally.

gods mercy and grace the hebrew roots perspective also emphasizes that gods mercy chesed is foundational to salvation. even though human beings are incapable of perfectly keeping the torah god justifies the ungodly not based on their works but on his mercy and grace. this grace is not a free pass to sin but an invitation to return to a right relationship with god through faith and obedience.

romans 4 5 in the hebrew roots perspective underscores the idea that justification and righteousness come through trusting in gods promises a trust that leads to obedience and that gods grace is available to all who put their faith in him. it aligns with the broader biblical narrative that both faith and works are inseparable and must go hand in hand in a believers life.

This post was edited by DrFetus on Dec 15 2024 12:55pm
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Dec 15 2024 12:58pm
Quote (JmanD2R @ Oct 11 2024 07:58am)
Being saved seems to be a gift according to the bible. Gifts require no work from the receiving individual. (Eph 2:8-9)

So im saved by trusting in Christ death burial ressurection . And he gives me eternal life (heaven). (1 corintians 15:3)

Bible also says im sealed i will never go to hell. Because this is a promise from Christ. (Eph 1:13) (john 10:28-29)

So i guess my question is why are some people trusting in their works, like baptist, going to church, reading bible , helping 1000 old ladys cross the street. Ect. Maybe its pride? Some people just have to put 1 nail in the wall to say they built the house. (Galatians 2:16)

Also in book of james when it talks about faith without works is dead. That just means dead faith. Like your faith isnt helping about else to christ. It doesnt say the man is dead because he has no works.


-please respond your thoughts thanks.


from both the old and new testament perspectives, salvation is a gift freely given by god. however, that gift calls for a response: a living faith demonstrated through obedience and good works. salvation is not earned by works, but true faith will always result in works, as the believer seeks to align their life with god’s will. the old testament set apart ones understood this dynamic, and the new testament continues to teach that faith and works go hand in hand. as paul writes in philippians 2:12-13, believers are to "work out their salvation with fear and trembling," not to earn it, but because it is god who works in them to will and to act according to his good purpose.

This post was edited by DrFetus on Dec 15 2024 12:59pm
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