I do not know the rationale for the subforums listed currently, but how about ones dedicated to x86/x64? I feel that based on many of the threads in the C/C++ subforum, many students would benefit greatly from going down one level in abstraction.

The main question this addresses is motivation: several students are given primitives with which to perform basic programming tasks, with varying levels of context and importance. If you issue the same task in ASM, the programmer is forced to think more, and with additional constraints.

This also introduces the novice to issues that are quickly brushed under the rug in beginning C/C++ tutorials. What happens when I get an arithmetic overflow? I don't know! It depends on the context. It might mean an assertion is being violated (and maybe you don't even know you SHOULD have an assertion), or perhaps you are not even alerted to arithmetic overflow and get unexpected output, despite everything else being correct.

This is just a thought, but if the point of these forums is education, these discussions should have a new subforum.

In addition, the lack of any sticky posts in C/C++/C# is of concern. At a minimum, it should point to standard references, along with pointers to GCC installation on various systems and basic tutorials. Similar but more detailed versions are possible for both C/C++/C# and the proposed ASM subforum.

Why you should care about asm

If you haven't heard of it before, it may sound like black magic and/or fairy dust. The truth is, it is cleverly hidden from you by system programmers and compilers for good didactic reasons. You see it when you are ready to see it and look for it. There is good support for this position among practitioners. But where does it show up?

Roller coaster tycoon, for example, was written entirely in x86 assembly. This means it was written specifically for Intel processors in the 32-bit model. This is not typical, or probably even optimal, but it serves as an example of the power and flexibility of ASM. What else can you do with ASM? When you're debugging a program at a low level, you sometimes need to look at the contents of registers and memory locations to see where you're going wrong. Being familiar with instruction sets and general knowledge about how stuff works at this level helps tremendously with disassembly being useful to you (e.g. in visual studio / MSC, or otherwise). Cryptography? Immensely useful. Systems programming / drivers? Even more so. The list probably goes on with things I haven't heard of before, but I'm making the case here in a general sense: novices should at least be aware of its existence, and have somewhere to go in a familiar place (d2jsp) to do research and ask for help from peers.

-mw

Add yet another barely used subforum? We have too many as it is. People keep spamming the same topic in all of them as it is.


Students who want to learn CS won't come here. They come here since they have homework due that they don't want to do.

This post was edited by carteblanche on Jul 7 2014 06:28pm

On the first point: this just means the moderation on the subforum is weak.

On the second point: this is a gaming website, so that's at least one level of indirection for learning CS, hence your point is well taken. Regardless, I have seen several threads that do add value in the general section and in some of the subforums.

With some smarter mods and more sticky-quality posts, this could be a useful resource for gamers in a non-threatening environment. For example: if you search the phrase 'x86', what's the likelihood you land on the right resource that answers your questions at your level? If you are searching it, chances are you are not a CS undergrad and don't know better.

I will leave it to other contributors to comment on whether they think ASM is a worthwhile addition. If the consensus is along the lines of your first point, I doubt there is much value added by this entire 'haven' over and above the homework help hotline.

This post was edited by just_shotmikew2 on Jul 7 2014 07:29pm

I see the value in assembly, but I don't think this is the place for it. I also think we already have to many subs here...should be web and other imo.

There are only a handful of people who actually know assembler and post in this sub forum, and even less people who ask for help about it. If someone has a question they can post in the general subforum.

I don't see the point.

Next useless post.

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=70966859&f=120

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=70539276&f=120

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=70354206&f=120

These are good examples of threads that could be in that subforum, considering the high variability in most other posts I can see in 'haven'.

Even if activity will be lower, I find it hard to believe that you can justify a C/C++ and a visual basic subforum, but not one for asm. Moreover, the infrequency of these posts argues for a dedicated place to discuss these questions: quality posts and quality answers should not be buried among web design requests, general pc building advice, smart phone unlocking, and other trivia.