I referenced example code for the first couple years while I was learning PHP I'll admit that, afterwards through reading some books I was shown clearly what was good practice and what wasn't, which I suggest people do. PHP is a great language to start with, but don't start from some guys blog, start with a good book, you'll save quite a bit of wasted time. RoR is lacking in inexperienced people really, the resources out there right now aren't clouded by guys on their blogs the way PHP is. It's finding the right resources, although when I do have a question about some uses or what I'm doing it takes longer to find an answer than with PHP. Lamp stack basically outlines my job, so that's why I'm defending it, it's not at all as bad as that article makes it out to be for the uses that are regularly required. I never said RoR was bad, it's just this kid who thinks pinging my domain and finding the IP makes him a genius, telling everyone on this sf to install linux when they're having a problem, and how my firewall magically turns itself on and off, those people irritate me.

I'm sorry that you can't defend your uneducated opinions.



wow, what a shame that language only has experienced people? what this even means lol



You can cut the crap, your firewall wasn't enabled, mysql wide open to the world (which is another awesome component, eg. allowing anyone in with any password http://www.cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2012-2122). You can keep repeating your awesome gnome server has best firewall, I don't care who belives you here, but you sure care a lot about it.



and you didn't learn shit?



glorious quotes m8. good thing you didn't have a valid connection in your code. Also awesome practice to dump errors for user to see, I DON'T KNOW WHAT COULD GO WRONG WITH IT



learn before you open your mouth next time

This post was edited by nuvo on Aug 15 2013 04:07pm

Please keep it to pm, flaming you shouldn't have to be public.

and the good lord knows I should give a password to a forum for all to see, how fucking retarded are you?

I didn't read the article because I didn't suspect it had much to teach me, and I already have experienced php enough to know it's plain weak. However, since you insist, I've read it. I agree with the majority of what this guy has to say about php, however, he is sorely mistaken on a few points.

"A language must be predictable. It’s a medium for expressing human ideas and having a computer execute them, so it’s critical that a human’s understanding of a program actually be correct."

No, just no. This, along with the few examples from his page you quoted are the mark of happy go lucky developers. You shouldn't predict, you shouldn't expect. You should test the result thouroughly and compare it to what you know it HAS to return. If the result differs from that, then you do not know what this call does and should learn it properly. You can't guaranty security on your code without this kind of mindset, let alone begin to debug a vast project. Simply expecting or predicting behavior in software and hardware developement is a recipe for failure, even more so with higher level languages. The least you should do in the case of unpredictable behavior is to wrap that part of your code in "boilerplate" as the author names it.

Blaming a language for not doing what you expect is a grave mistake. Don't forget it was developed by men and that you just aren't in their head. Complaining about the amount of precautions you have to take around certain parts of the language as compared to others is legitimate. Complain that such parts can fuck up without the work around is just a waste of your time. Take this from someone that deved cooperative multitasking apps in asm on risc platforms.

Same thing with the example on strpos. That's just bad design on your part. That the same as people suddenly realizing ecdsa signatures made with openssl on windows and android could reveal your private key since the entropy function it calls on those platforms fails silently. If you're gonna rely on a language or api, learn its quirks. Test the returns thouroughly. This is even more true with online code as you should consider every client connection as potentialy hostile.

"Function calls are apparently rather expensive."

That's a joke right? Considering most php out there is within an *amp stack, you're concerned about the ressource cost of functions when you have to spawn the goddamn process for every single connection??

"Closures require explicitly naming every variable to be closed-over. Why can’t the interpreter figure this out? Kind of hamstrings the whole feature. (Okay, it’s because using a variable ever, at all, creates it unless explicitly told otherwise.)"

Because there is virtually no variable isolation through scoping in php and it's by design on a loose type paradigm, not to mention keywords like global. A third of this article is complaining about the loose typing of php while the author clearly states at the start that a proper language should be consistent. Gotta know what you want...

"Across the board, I’m in favor of running Web applications as app servers and reverse-proxying to them. It takes minimal effort to set this up, and the benefits are plenty: you can manage your web server and app separately, you can run as many or few app processes on as many machines as you want without needing more web servers, you can run the app as a different user with zero effort, you can switch web servers, you can take down the app without touching the web server, you can do seamless deployment by just switching where a fifo points, etc. Welding your application to your web server is absurd and there’s no good reason to do it any more."

That's borderline syllogism. People that have the skill devellop their own app and manage their own machine have no need for php. Those that lack such skills can find a quick solution in *amp. You can push the syllogism even further. Those that need a little dynamic content will be fine with php while those that need much more probably have the skills and don't need php.

you didn't even understand my point there?

look closer at the quotes, the result of your awesome php practices.

also i enjoy flaming your biased, uneducated opinions publicly and watching your high horse turning into a pony. hi.

From a duck with abs

I will just state whats wrong and my opinion and let it be.

First off telling a hobbyist to setup his own server is pretty retarded. If they are simply trying to dabble in html and css they can simply open their work inside a browser. If they need backend server languages and databasing I would agree *amp would plausibly be the best starting point. The package self extracts into a working environment and you can get to work right off the go. It's not like he is going to use it for production of any live sites. Also arguing about Apache on windows vs Apache on *nix is a bit laughable. They are both horrible and not to mention full of low bandwidth high resource denial of service attacks which have to be patched. I would of suggested nginx instead, but that is just personal preference.

As for php vs python vs ruby, they all have their downfalls. Php is just plain bad overall, many comparative operators are retarded as so are its functions. Like really why do you need 5+ different ways to execute commands to the OS as well as allow user injectable code be ran inside of string functions if the coder misuses the \e flag. Further more ruby shouldn't be held so highly on the pedestal either. RoR is still full of security holes much like ColdFusion is. Also not only is RoR a security risk much as everything else is, Ruby module programmers are far worse than any php programmer I've met. I don't know how many times I have downloaded a Ruby gem just to realize they haven't followed through with their unit tests and released broken code.

As for bitching about which OS/distro to use is kind of childish. A user can use what ever OS/distro they please depending on what they need. If they have the resources they have no reason to not use Ubuntu with all its bloatware. Personally I prefer mint as a home OS, but they are both based off Debian so they are practically the same at the core. As for servers if you have the resources use what ever you want and are conferable with. I personally use Gentoo with my hardened kernel. Nothing feels more satisfying than compiling your own kernel and stripping out drivers which are not needed.

This entire thread is just a bunch of guys bashing everything and trying to say one ecosystem is better than the other. Everything in this thread has its flaws so really all that matters is what you like better. My only disagreement would be that of trying to put a person who just wants to learn and dropping him into an unfamiliar OS and telling him to install a handful of software.

Experience: Many years of programming in all related languages also including assembler, C, as well as others. Also aided in the development in a few ColdFusion 0days. Particularly the one that affected nvd.nist and Linode.

Well, that's pretty much why flyinggoat's perfectly reasonable posts are getting mostly ignored.

Besides, it wouldn't be fun if people weren't pulling their rulers out and shit.

Have no fear my dear sir, I shall get my fair share of flames in due time