Quote (marioo1182 @ Oct 17 2012 06:00pm)

This has been extremely helpful, thank you!

Quote (irimi @ Oct 17 2012 02:33pm)

python.  it's not called "taking the easy way out".  it's called "learning with minimal distractions".  programming isn't about syntax, or language structure, or whatever details that a particular language requires you to care about.  programming isn't even about low-level concepts like memory management / garbage collection (all of which you will learn later on anyway).

programming is about learning the concepts behind building systems that work.  so the less a language bogs you down about its own particular details, the quicker (and better) you'll be able to learn.  (which is why C++ is a horrible, horrible language for anybody to start with)

as for where to start -- fundamentals is a good place to start:
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-00-introduction-to-computer-science-and-programming-fall-2008/

or for something more step-by-step:
http://learnpythonthehardway.org/




depends on what you mean by "from the ground up".  if you mean "from the ground up architecturally", that is the worst possible way to learn.  (which is what learning from, say, C would be -- and if you were to make a case for that, why not go all the way and start by learning assembly?)

if you mean "from the ground up conceptually", then the language is mostly irrelevant.  it's merely a tool for assisting you in learning the concepts, and the simpler the tool is, the more you can focus on learning the concepts and less on wrestling with the language.

Quote (rockonkenshin @ Oct 18 2012 12:18pm)

So you took this advice which is by someone who can barely program.



Yet you seemed to have ignored this, which is really solid advice.

Quote (rockonkenshin @ Oct 18 2012 03:18pm)

So you took this advice which is by someone who can barely program.



Yet you seemed to have ignored this, which is really solid advice.

Quote (Eep @ Oct 18 2012 02:31pm)

don't have to be a master programmer to offer advice (I asked the same questions way back and got a stark contrast in responses from supposed 'good' programmers.....ergo there is no real concrete advice on this forum)

Maybe offer up suggestions instead of quoting other peoples.....but that requires thinking, and thinking is hard, eh?

Quote (Mackenzie_1992 @ Oct 18 2012 01:54pm)

http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html

I'm also new to programming. The book above is from the MIT website and it's completely free and uses the Scheme dialect of Lisp, a very simple language by my understanding. I'm not sure but I think it might be helpful in learning the very basics, concepts, etc. Let me know if I'm on the right track with this.

Quote (Eep @ Oct 18 2012 04:31pm)

don't have to be a master programmer to offer advice (I asked the same questions way back and got a stark contrast in responses from supposed 'good' programmers.....ergo there is no real concrete advice on this forum)

Maybe offer up suggestions instead of quoting other peoples.....but that requires thinking, and thinking is hard, eh?

Quote (irimi @ Oct 18 2012 04:55pm)

Yeah, receiving good advice kind of sucks when it's stuff you don't want to hear.



MIT (and UCBerkeley) used to teach their introductory CS course using Scheme.  I think that's changed in the last few years -- they've moved on to Python, which was the language of choice when they began offering 6.00 as a course for folks who wanted to learn some basic programming/CS but didn't plan on majoring in it (or at least, were still deciding whether to major in CS or not).

Quote (Eep @ Oct 18 2012 03:08pm)

Depends what you consider good advice. Like I appreciate the stuff you guys offer me nowadays because there is some context. Back then when I knew less than zilch however no one seemed interested in explaining further. I can appreciate that, though, because why take on a teaching role when you are just two guys on the internet. I understand.

And rockonkenshin, if you think my advice was WRONG then maybe you should develop a reason as to WHY it is bad and/or wrong, and NOT just copy irimi's post. Again, think for yourself.

I ain't being pretentious, who was it that called me out for barely being able to program? And just how do you sound there? I haven't seen ANY of your accomplishments. As far as I know you are no one. Context, my friend, it is needed.

Quote (irimi @ Oct 18 2012 05:10pm)

lololol

Quote (Eep @ Oct 18 2012 03:14pm)

whatevs. I don't enjoy taking flak from random people on the internet. He quoted two posts and suddenly he was a sensei. Was anything I suggested inherently wrong? Other than the fact that I said python was an easy way out....which is my own opinion formed after having been told not to learn on it from industry friends.