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Jul 7 2022 01:30pm
Democrats in North Carolina now claim to have found large amounts of voter fraud involving fake votes and dead voters. And without any substantive evidence of widespread voter fraud that would impact the dynamics of an election, they have voted along party lines in the state's board of elections to preemptively bar the Green Party from the ballot in 2022, which of course has nothing to do with how the Green party pulls votes from Democrats.

Over the past few weeks, the Democrats have waged an all-out campaign of attempting to deny the Green Party's petition to be on the state's ballot. Their main accusation is that several of those who signed the Green Party's petition have requested to withdraw their names from it, but also allege a handful of now deceased signatories. But funnily enough, these "withdrawn petitions" come after the Democrats have doxxed the full list of signatories who signed the petition, and then spamming them with truly nonstop, all day long harassing phone calls and even in-person visits from Democratic operatives trying to bully them into withdrawing their signatures. Across the state Democrats have been knocking on doors and doing robocalls 5+ times per day to Green Party supporters to try to get them to withdraw, just to give the Democrats the pretense of alleging voter fraud.

And after that whole campaign, Democrats wound up with 145 withdrawn or 'suspicious' signatures. Which left the Greens with over 16000 certified and uncontested signatures when only 13,865 were needed to be placed on the ballot. The Democrats had failed at blocking the Greens from the ballot by harassing their supporters.

So next came the logical step for the "Democratic" party: They simply made wild and unsubstantiated allegations of fraud and used their control over the board of elections to vote 3-2 on party lines to exclude the Greens, even though they had provably met the criterion. When the lawyers for the Green Party objected during the hearing, they simply muted their microphones.

https://www.carolinajournal.com/green-party-says-democrats-used-tricks-to-block-them-from-ballot/

Quote
“We needed 13,865 verified signatures; we turned in 22,500 signatures,” Hoh told Carolina Journal. “Of that 22,500, about 16,000 were verified by the county boards of election. … We were about 2,100 over what we needed to get on the ballot.”

But soon after these signatures were submitted, the Elias Law Group was able to get the names and addresses of those who signed through a public-records request. These Green Party supporters were then repeatedly called, texted, and visited at home by Democrat operatives and asked to sign forms to renounce their earlier signature of the petition.

“If they [the signers] want to take their names off, it’s fine, of course,” Hoh said. “Again [it’s] the idea that people are being deliberately lied to in a very calculated way to get them to remove their names.”

Hoh said the petition forms only have name, address, birth date, and signature, so he believes Democrats got people’s phone numbers by cross referencing with other information in Democratic Party databases. Many of the callers identified themselves as with the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. But according to some of those called, the callers identified themselves as working with, not against, the Green Party.

A recording of one of those calls, provided by Hoh, can be heard below. The person asks three times if the caller is really with the Green Party, and each time he is told that the caller is. Then the caller reads the same script that the DSCC callers have used, asking if they will remove their name from the ballot so they don’t help Republicans.

Carolina Journal interviewed another Green Party supporter, Janet Nagel of Greensboro, who said she also received misleading, harassing calls.

Nagel said an automatic dialer called several times, which she ignored because of the long pause before anyone spoke. But when she finally waited to see what the caller wanted, it was a woman who represented herself as with the Green Party.

“It seemed illogical,” Nagel said of a Green Party representative encouraging her to remove her support from the organization. “Why would she be telling me that? So I told her that it was not a correct assessment [that supporting NCGP means helping the Republicans], because people who would be voting for the Greens were not going to be voting for the Democrats. Then, as a non sequitur, and this was the part that really concerned me, she said, ‘So would you want to remove your name from the petition?'”

Nagel, a senior citizen, said she then told the caller that they “should be ashamed of themselves for making these phone calls,” and the person hung up.

In a June 28 statement on his website, Hoh said, “Sadly, these were not isolated incidents. The Matthew Hoh campaign and North Carolina Green Party (NCGP) have received numerous reports [of] calls and in-person visits to voters who signed the Green’s petition by individuals misrepresenting themselves as associated with the NCGP, and who pressured those voters to disavow their signatures.”

Hoh told CJ that the NCSBE is aware of these calls and that NCGP is “giving them information and working with them as we can to help them investigate what we believe is harassment and bullying, but also quite possibly illegal.”

Hoh said the people were being told other incorrect information as well, like that if they remove their names, it won’t negatively affect the Green Party since the party has already been certified.

“They’re calling people five times a day,” Hoh said. “Actually, one person just told us that his wife yesterday was called four times in three and a half hours by them. There’s all kinds of levels on this. There’s the harassment; there’s the misrepresentation; and then there is the bullying or the shaming.”

They even reached out to Hoh himself. The texts were more focused on the negative impact the Green Party might have on the Democrats than on identifying any victims of potential fraud.


Quote
But all these efforts to convince people to renounce their signature did not produce much fruit. NCSBE Executive Director Karen Brinson Bell said during the June 30 meeting that only 145 people contacted the board to have their names removed. This was far lower than the 2,100 that Democrats needed to block the Green Party.

....
Before the vote, the Green Party attorney, Oliver Hall, jumped in to ask the the chair, “Is there any question as to the validity of the 15,953 signatures that have been validated by county boards of elections?”
The chair, Democrat Damon Circosta, said, “Sir, I don’t want to get into the details of a criminal investigation, but I have question sufficient in number to not be willing to vote for certification today.”
Hall responded by saying that the board was rejecting the Green Party’s certification because of a presumption against the signatures, but “if there is some presumption here that is operative, the presumption ought to be that validated signatures are valid unless there is some basis for considering them invalid or at least subject to investigation.”
When Circosta said that he was standing by his earlier statement, Hall said that he had not answered the question. But Circosta cut him off and said, “Mr. Hall, you are out of order. Go ahead and mute Mr. Hall.”


Small d democracy
This is the same party that's holding the January 6th Committee
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Jul 7 2022 01:33pm


Kind of makes Trump's claims of Democrat skullduggery in the 2020 election, seem more.... valid. ^^
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Jul 7 2022 01:36pm
Quote (Ghot @ Jul 7 2022 02:33pm)
Kind of makes Trump's claims of Democrat skullduggery in the 2020 election, seem more.... valid. ^^


To me it always begged the distinction between action and bluster. Trump was free to make wild accusations, he was free to make legal challenges. The democrats here have actually used their 3-2 majority in the state board of elections to ban an opposition party from the ballot just to avoid splitting their votes. One is foolish but harmless, the other is a direct attack on our democracy.
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Jul 7 2022 01:40pm
Quote (Ghot @ Jul 7 2022 03:33pm)
Kind of makes Trump's claims of Democrat skullduggery in the 2020 election, seem more.... valid. ^^


Impossibru, MSM said Orangemanbad so Orangemanbad. Hail Biden!
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Jul 7 2022 01:42pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Jul 7 2022 03:36pm)
To me it always begged the distinction between action and bluster. Trump was free to make wild accusations, he was free to make legal challenges. The democrats here have actually used their 3-2 majority in the state board of elections to ban an opposition party from the ballot just to avoid splitting their votes. One is foolish but harmless, the other is a direct attack on our democracy.




You don't have to convince me.
I know we have a lot of lefties on PaRD, but even they have to admit the Dems have been playing with at least one hand under the table.
I mean if the Dems were a stage magician, every lefty on PaRD would be saying: What a hack, I can see through every trick.



This is the Dem's nightmare...




This post was edited by Ghot on Jul 7 2022 01:48pm
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Jul 7 2022 02:22pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Jul 7 2022 12:30pm)
Democrats in North Carolina now claim to have found large amounts of voter fraud involving fake votes and dead voters. And without any substantive evidence of widespread voter fraud that would impact the dynamics of an election, they have voted along party lines in the state's board of elections to preemptively bar the Green Party from the ballot in 2022, which of course has nothing to do with how the Green party pulls votes from Democrats.

Over the past few weeks, the Democrats have waged an all-out campaign of attempting to deny the Green Party's petition to be on the state's ballot. Their main accusation is that several of those who signed the Green Party's petition have requested to withdraw their names from it, but also allege a handful of now deceased signatories. But funnily enough, these "withdrawn petitions" come after the Democrats have doxxed the full list of signatories who signed the petition, and then spamming them with truly nonstop, all day long harassing phone calls and even in-person visits from Democratic operatives trying to bully them into withdrawing their signatures. Across the state Democrats have been knocking on doors and doing robocalls 5+ times per day to Green Party supporters to try to get them to withdraw, just to give the Democrats the pretense of alleging voter fraud.

And after that whole campaign, Democrats wound up with 145 withdrawn or 'suspicious' signatures. Which left the Greens with over 16000 certified and uncontested signatures when only 13,865 were needed to be placed on the ballot. The Democrats had failed at blocking the Greens from the ballot by harassing their supporters.

So next came the logical step for the "Democratic" party: They simply made wild and unsubstantiated allegations of fraud and used their control over the board of elections to vote 3-2 on party lines to exclude the Greens, even though they had provably met the criterion. When the lawyers for the Green Party objected during the hearing, they simply muted their microphones.

https://www.carolinajournal.com/green-party-says-democrats-used-tricks-to-block-them-from-ballot/





Small d democracy
This is the same party that's holding the January 6th Committee


I haven't seen any claims about fake votes or voter fraud. I've only seen claims of suspicious signatures which is obviously VERY different. You shouldn't conflate the two.

My position is that regardless of a probe, if they've validated more signatures than required, then the commission should approve them unless there was something criminal about how the signatures were gathered.
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Jul 7 2022 02:27pm
Quote (thundercock @ Jul 7 2022 04:22pm)
I haven't seen any claims about fake votes or voter fraud. I've only seen claims of suspicious signatures which is obviously VERY different. You shouldn't conflate the two.

My position is that regardless of a probe, if they've validated more signatures than required, then the commission should approve them unless there was something criminal about how the signatures were gathered.


If cheating was a contest, the Dems would win.
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Jul 7 2022 02:52pm
Quote (thundercock @ Jul 7 2022 03:22pm)
I haven't seen any claims about fake votes or voter fraud. I've only seen claims of suspicious signatures which is obviously VERY different. You shouldn't conflate the two.

My position is that regardless of a probe, if they've validated more signatures than required, then the commission should approve them unless there was something criminal about how the signatures were gathered.


The democrats alleged dead voters and stated that they are now investigating election fraud and their official rationale for denying the petition is that they are presuming the signatures to be fraudulent;

>The board said the investigation also identified 145 signatories who sought to revoke their signatures, three individuals who claim they did not sign the petition and several signatures from deceased voters.
>The chair, Democrat Damon Circosta, said, “Sir, I don’t want to get into the details of a criminal investigation, but I have question sufficient in number to not be willing to vote for certification today.”
>Hall responded by saying that the board was rejecting the Green Party’s certification because of a presumption against the signatures"

The democrats tried and failed to conduct a dirty tricks campaign of all-out harassment and deceit to impersonate the green party and fool its supporters into revoking their signatures. It didn't work. So now they're simply alleging completely spurious and unsupported claims of fake votes and voter fraud, and using that as a pretext to rig the election- with the only 'evidence' being their own failed campaign to trick people into revoking their signatures.
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Jul 7 2022 02:54pm
And of course, for the green party to actually challenge any of this in court will be enormously expensive and they won't recoup legal fees even if they win
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Jul 7 2022 03:08pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Jul 7 2022 01:52pm)
The democrats alleged dead voters and stated that they are now investigating election fraud and their official rationale for denying the petition is that they are presuming the signatures to be fraudulent;

>The board said the investigation also identified 145 signatories who sought to revoke their signatures, three individuals who claim they did not sign the petition and several signatures from deceased voters.
>The chair, Democrat Damon Circosta, said, “Sir, I don’t want to get into the details of a criminal investigation, but I have question sufficient in number to not be willing to vote for certification today.”
>Hall responded by saying that the board was rejecting the Green Party’s certification because of a presumption against the signatures"

The democrats tried and failed to conduct a dirty tricks campaign of all-out harassment and deceit to impersonate the green party and fool its supporters into revoking their signatures. It didn't work. So now they're simply alleging completely spurious and unsupported claims of fake votes and voter fraud, and using that as a pretext to rig the election- with the only 'evidence' being their own failed campaign to trick people into revoking their signatures.


I don't really have a problem with the GOP or Dems playing shenanigans with 3rd parties. That's expected and par for the course.

https://www.ncsbe.gov/news/press-releases/2022/06/30/amid-investigation-state-board-turns-down-green-party-recognition
Quote

To date, the investigation has found numerous petition pages containing signs of fraud or other irregularities. This includes signatures that had previously been approved by the county boards. Irregularities include:

The same handwriting throughout a petition page and/or signatures that clearly appear to be written by the same person. It is illegal to sign the name of another person to a petition.
Three signature-gathering contractors hired for this petition collected 1,472 signatures, but only 624 were accepted. At least three workers were paid by the signature collected.
Voters apparently signed petitions more than once.
Voters whose names appear on the signature sheets claim they never signed the petition.
Petition sheets include deceased voters or voters long-removed from the voter registration files, indicating submission of signature sheets from a past Green Party petition drive.
Signature pages identify a long-ago Green Party chair, also indicating submission of outdated signatures.
See additional information about the investigation, including the PowerPoint presentation given at the State Board meeting, which includes examples of apparently fraudulent signature pages.

This is pretty substantial IMO. As I said before, IF the valid signatures already exceeded the required number, they should be allowed to be on the ballot assuming protocol was followed correctly.


This post was edited by thundercock on Jul 7 2022 03:09pm
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