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Jun 8 2021 08:42pm
Trump's tax cut was literally the worst thing you can possibly do to an economy and he did it purely to artificially boost the 2 main economic metrics people look at - stock market + unemployment rate. The tax cuts he put in place was said to be to "put more money in workers' pockets." It did for those with enough loose cash to toss in the stock market to take advantage, but other than that it just benefited the rich.

The Trump Tax Cuts had a small impact on your own individual taxes, but a massive reduction in corporate taxes. Companies slightly boosted hiring, which led to unemployment staying very low. However, the vast majority of this money went into stock buybacks (where companies quite literally take the free cash flow they have and instead of investing into pay raises for their employees, new machinery, new technologies, etc., they just literally convert their cash into more company stock, restricting the amount of available shares, and thus artificially boosting their stock price. For those who don't understand how this drives money into executive bonuses, I'll explain: Executives are compensated almost entirely in bonuses in the form of a Short Term and Long Term Incentive Plan. They set goals on metrics most commonly as Relative TSR (stock price) and EPS (earnings per share) along with some combination of ROIC/EBITDA/etc. In order for executives to get paid, the stock price of their company has to outperform that of their "peers" which is typically 12-20 companies similar in size and industry. They have bonuses set with a "threshold, target, and max" goal. Threshold typically = 50% payout, Target = 100% payout, Max = 150-200% payout. So if a company's stock price beats out say 25% of their peers, they'll earn the "threshold" goal of 50% of their bonus amount. If they beat out 50-55% of their peers, they'll get paid 100% of their bonus amount. If the stock price beats out 75% of their peers, they can get a 200% payout of their target bonus amount. Meaning, if your company's stock price doesn't soar and you're an exec, you ain't gettin paid because salary is typically only 10% of your overall pay. (If anyone wants to learn more about executive compensation packages, I designed them for Russell 3000 firms for years, PM me).

So, now we know that company's spent their money on repurchasing their own shares to artificially & temporarily boost their own stock price. I say artificially & temporarily because these tax cuts are basically just giving free money off the bottom of the balance sheet and temporary because if they are just buying their own stock, they aren't actually growing the company so it'll all level out within a few years once that extra cash is used up to buy more stock. So, aside from that, why is it bad? Well, take Delta Air Lines for example. They, like most, took all that money and invested it into their company stock. Then, Coronavirus hit (or it could've been any market driver, so don't just blame Coronavirus). What happened? Their stock price fell in the toilet. Meaning, if they took $1 billion from their extra Trump bucks and put it into stock buybacks, and their stock price fell 50%, then they quite literally took $500 million and lit it on fire. Then, because they had no free cash on hand and their stock was too low for it to make sense to dilute their shares further, they laid off a bunch of workers and then asked the government for bailout money (not so "free market conservative capitalism is it?)

Thus, my point is that Trump's tax cuts resulted in stock repurchases that led to massive layoffs for the workers while executives enjoyed huge bonuses for the prior 2-3 years. That's the kind of economic change that moves the needle in a huge way. So if the stock market does falter, everyone will blame Biden because he's president. However, let's not forget the massive debt that stemmed from Trump by taking money from us taxpayers, giving it to businesses to light on fire, then spiking the debt for PPP loans and bailout money for "free market businesses."

Enjoy my manifesto.
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Jun 8 2021 08:43pm
I'm largely in agreement. We had a hot economy coming off of Obama, and then they massively cut taxes to increase it more, but it didn't really change the trajectory of anything except the stock market.

Then with the economy being so hot it had a long way to fall when Covid hit, of course they can't know that at the time.
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Jun 8 2021 08:48pm
Quote (AspenSniper @ Jun 8 2021 10:42pm)
Trump's tax cut was literally the worst thing you can possibly do to an economy and he did it purely to artificially boost the 2 main economic metrics people look at - stock market + unemployment rate. The tax cuts he put in place was said to be to "put more money in workers' pockets." It did for those with enough loose cash to toss in the stock market to take advantage, but other than that it just benefited the rich.

The Trump Tax Cuts had a small impact on your own individual taxes, but a massive reduction in corporate taxes. Companies slightly boosted hiring, which led to unemployment staying very low. However, the vast majority of this money went into stock buybacks (where companies quite literally take the free cash flow they have and instead of investing into pay raises for their employees, new machinery, new technologies, etc., they just literally convert their cash into more company stock, restricting the amount of available shares, and thus artificially boosting their stock price. For those who don't understand how this drives money into executive bonuses, I'll explain: Executives are compensated almost entirely in bonuses in the form of a Short Term and Long Term Incentive Plan. They set goals on metrics most commonly as Relative TSR (stock price) and EPS (earnings per share) along with some combination of ROIC/EBITDA/etc. In order for executives to get paid, the stock price of their company has to outperform that of their "peers" which is typically 12-20 companies similar in size and industry. They have bonuses set with a "threshold, target, and max" goal. Threshold typically = 50% payout, Target = 100% payout, Max = 150-200% payout. So if a company's stock price beats out say 25% of their peers, they'll earn the "threshold" goal of 50% of their bonus amount. If they beat out 50-55% of their peers, they'll get paid 100% of their bonus amount. If the stock price beats out 75% of their peers, they can get a 200% payout of their target bonus amount. Meaning, if your company's stock price doesn't soar and you're an exec, you ain't gettin paid because salary is typically only 10% of your overall pay. (If anyone wants to learn more about executive compensation packages, I designed them for Russell 3000 firms for years, PM me).

So, now we know that company's spent their money on repurchasing their own shares to artificially & temporarily boost their own stock price. I say artificially & temporarily because these tax cuts are basically just giving free money off the bottom of the balance sheet and temporary because if they are just buying their own stock, they aren't actually growing the company so it'll all level out within a few years once that extra cash is used up to buy more stock. So, aside from that, why is it bad? Well, take Delta Air Lines for example. They, like most, took all that money and invested it into their company stock. Then, Coronavirus hit (or it could've been any market driver, so don't just blame Coronavirus). What happened? Their stock price fell in the toilet. Meaning, if they took $1 billion from their extra Trump bucks and put it into stock buybacks, and their stock price fell 50%, then they quite literally took $500 million and lit it on fire. Then, because they had no free cash on hand and their stock was too low for it to make sense to dilute their shares further, they laid off a bunch of workers and then asked the government for bailout money (not so "free market conservative capitalism is it?)

Thus, my point is that Trump's tax cuts resulted in stock repurchases that led to massive layoffs for the workers while executives enjoyed huge bonuses for the prior 2-3 years. That's the kind of economic change that moves the needle in a huge way. So if the stock market does falter, everyone will blame Biden because he's president. However, let's not forget the massive debt that stemmed from Trump by taking money from us taxpayers, giving it to businesses to light on fire, then spiking the debt for PPP loans and bailout money for "free market businesses."

Enjoy my manifesto.


Median income rose by 10%. Fuck off.
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Jun 8 2021 08:48pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jun 8 2021 10:43pm)
I'm largely in agreement. We had a hot economy coming off of Obama, and then they massively cut taxes to increase it more, but it didn't really change the trajectory of anything except the stock market.

Then with the economy being so hot it had a long way to fall when Covid hit, of course they can't know that at the time.


As a guy who largely invests in stocks, I am wise enough to realize that only benefits people who can afford to buy stocks. If you're just a worker, it's not good when your company buys up it's own stock to make their executives and investors richer leaving you with the same stagnant pay after the company promised "these tax cuts will allow us to take care of our employees!" Actually, my biggest personal qualm with Obama was his negligence in not raising minimum wage further.

Quote (EndlessSky @ Jun 8 2021 10:48pm)
Median income rose by 10%. Fuck off.


No it didn't, but CEO pay did average 10% increases per year under Trump, including 14% in 2019 proxy season -- https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-surged-14-in-2019-to-21-3-million-ceos-now-earn-320-times-as-much-as-a-typical-worker/

This post was edited by AspenSniper on Jun 8 2021 08:51pm
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Jun 8 2021 08:50pm
Quote (AspenSniper @ Jun 8 2021 09:48pm)
As a guy who largely invests in stocks, I am wise enough to realize that only benefits people who can afford to buy stocks. If you're just a worker, it's not good when your company buys up it's own stock to make their executives and investors richer leaving you with the same stagnant pay after the company promised "these tax cuts will allow us to take care of our employees!" Actually, my biggest personal qualm with Obama was his negligence in not raising minimum wage further.

No it didn't.


Hot damn when did you get woke?
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Jun 8 2021 08:52pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jun 8 2021 10:50pm)
Hot damn when did you get woke?


Well if you ask me about social programs I'm quite conservative. I'm for anything that benefits workers and against anything that benefits non-workers. What Trump did completely fucked working people and just made the rich richer. That's not okay.

This post was edited by AspenSniper on Jun 8 2021 08:53pm
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Jun 8 2021 08:57pm
delusional thread. “Trump cut taxes but somehow gave more money to corporations which destroyed jobs during a period where unemployment was at record lows”

keep cheerleading for segregationist and crooked cop politicians. that will help the country
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Jun 8 2021 09:08pm
Quote (excellence @ Jun 8 2021 10:57pm)
delusional thread. “Trump cut taxes but somehow gave more money to corporations which destroyed jobs during a period where unemployment was at record lows”

keep cheerleading for segregationist and crooked cop politicians. that will help the country



Was told at work not to delegate segregation with masked vs non masked. Oh I didn’t know.
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Jun 8 2021 09:11pm
Quote (AspenSniper @ Jun 8 2021 10:48pm)
As a guy who largely invests in stocks, I am wise enough to realize that only benefits people who can afford to buy stocks. If you're just a worker, it's not good when your company buys up it's own stock to make their executives and investors richer leaving you with the same stagnant pay after the company promised "these tax cuts will allow us to take care of our employees!" Actually, my biggest personal qualm with Obama was his negligence in not raising minimum wage further.



No it didn't, but CEO pay did average 10% increases per year under Trump, including 14% in 2019 proxy season -- https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-surged-14-in-2019-to-21-3-million-ceos-now-earn-320-times-as-much-as-a-typical-worker/


From 2016 to 2019 saw 10% increase in median wages.

Of COURSE CEO's are going to be paid more. They work infinitely more.



This post was edited by EndlessSky on Jun 8 2021 09:12pm
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Jun 8 2021 09:14pm
Quote (excellence @ Jun 8 2021 10:57pm)
delusional thread. “Trump cut taxes but somehow gave more money to corporations which destroyed jobs during a period where unemployment was at record lows”

keep cheerleading for segregationist and crooked cop politicians. that will help the country


Delusional is thinking Trump's tax cuts did not give more money to corporations. That isn't even opinion, Trump preached it himself repeatedly. Here's about the most unbiased source that exists: https://www.npr.org/2019/12/20/789540931/2-years-later-trump-tax-cuts-have-failed-to-deliver-on-gops-promises and here's one that leans right - https://www.wsj.com/articles/did-the-u-s-tax-overhaul-do-what-it-promised-11578114001
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