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Dec 1 2017 09:06am
i'm inclined to side with people who do analysis with numbers over people who make claims with no numbers to back it up

where do our resident pardians stand on this tax plan and the bolded numbers in particular ?

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/1/16721394/republican-reject-jct-score-tax-bill
Quote
The latest evaluation of the Senate’s tax bill Thursday is enough to end the Republican “fantasy of magical growth” in the economy, top Finance Committee Democrat Sen. Ron Wyden (OR) said.

Congress’s Joint Committee on Taxation, the official body tasked with estimating the tax bill’s impact, reported the Senate Republican’s tax bill would grow the economy by about 0.8 percent over 10 years, and still cost about $1 trillion.

That is a wildly lower growth number than what Republicans have been promising; Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin had said, “not only will this tax plan pay for itself, but it will pay down debt.” As Republicans hurtle toward a vote on the bill, the report massively undercuts the GOP’s argument for the bill.

But senate Republicans say they just don’t believe the analysis.

“I think it’s pretty clear they’re wrong,” Majority Whip Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) said of the JCT score.

Cornyn said the tax bill would bring “at least” 3.2 percent annual GDP growth. Sam Greenberg, an analyst with the right-leaning Tax Foundation, calculated an annual 4 percent year-over-year GDP growth, which Trump has suggested would mean the economy was about 12.9 percent larger on average. The JCT score, which calculates economic growth over a decade, estimated the tax bill would grow the economy an average 0.8 percent in that time.

This is the first dynamic score of the tax bill, meaning it forecasts how the economy will react to the policy. Republicans are making the argument that huge corporate tax cuts will bring back jobs and investments and massively grow the economy — in other words, that tax cuts would pay for themselves. They have long called for this kind of scoring.

But now, with an estimate much less optimistic than what they’ve been selling to their constituents, they’re ignoring the numbers and going with intuition.[/B]


This post was edited by duffman316 on Dec 1 2017 09:06am
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Dec 1 2017 09:11am
GOP, welcome to the position betweens rocks and hard places. Choose between a policy win and losing votes on reelection due to deficit growth or getting nothing done and possibly losing votes for it.
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Dec 1 2017 09:11am
Economics has a well-known liberal bias.

I'm a fiscal conservative, so I don't support the bill. I'd like the corporate tax rate lowered, spending cuts all around, and individual rates raised on the top bracket.

This post was edited by IceMage on Dec 1 2017 09:12am
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Dec 1 2017 09:14am
Quote (IceMage @ Dec 1 2017 09:11am)
Economics has a well-known liberal bias.

I'm a fiscal conservative, so I don't support the bill. I'd like the corporate tax rate lowered, spending cuts all around, and individual rates raised on the top bracket.


Why? How will that help the economy at all? They won't be putting that money back into it, or jobs.
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Dec 1 2017 09:16am
Quote (Xandriia @ Dec 1 2017 09:14am)
Why? How will that help the economy at all? They won't be putting that money back into it, or jobs.


we need them to use the cuts to build factories in the US so that when a dem gets voted in they can turn around and charge them an automation tax on the factories they built to pay for the jobs that will never come back in assembly and fabrication.
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Dec 1 2017 09:19am
Quote (IceMage @ Dec 1 2017 10:11am)
Economics has a well-known liberal bias.

I'm a fiscal conservative, so I don't support the bill. I'd like the corporate tax rate lowered, spending cuts all around, and individual rates raised on the top bracket.


i don't see what adding more to this pile of cash reserves accomplishes

(mid 2015 numbers)
Apple (AAPL, Tech30): $178 billion - 89% overseas
Microsoft (MSFT, Tech30): $90.2 billion - 91% overseas
Google (GOOG): $64.4 billion - 60% overseas
Cisco (CSCO, Tech30): $53 billion - 94% overseas
Oracle (ORCL, Tech30): $44.7 billion - 90% overseas

current tax rates haven't exactly been very oppressive


i'd like to see something done about offshoring tax avoidance

This post was edited by duffman316 on Dec 1 2017 09:21am
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Dec 1 2017 09:25am
Quote (duffman316 @ Dec 1 2017 09:19am)
i'd like to see something done about offshoring tax avoidance


i'm not sure what that does to stop outsourcing tho, seems like gas on the fire. We already lost manufacturing, what happens if silicon valley decides they can just carve out a kingdom elsewhere, it's not as if the internet has shipping costs for code.
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Dec 1 2017 09:32am
Quote (thesnipa @ Dec 1 2017 10:25am)
i'm not sure what that does to stop outsourcing tho, seems like gas on the fire. We already lost manufacturing, what happens if silicon valley decides they can just carve out a kingdom elsewhere, it's not as if the internet has shipping costs for code.


I don't mean outsourcing I mean operating and making money in country while shifting money around via financial magic to keep it offshore and avoid paying taxes on it
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Dec 1 2017 09:35am
Quote (duffman316 @ Dec 1 2017 09:32am)
I don't mean outsourcing I mean operating and making money in country while shifting money around via financial magic to keep it offshore and avoid paying taxes on it


i understand the two aren't directly related in that sense, but what effect do you feel tightening the tax code on corporations will have? Silicon valley especially seems like an industry that could pack bags and leave pretty easily moving forward. With shaky immigration visa laws in play and the world catching up in coding or surpassing us it's only a matter of time. Squeezing them seems like gas on a fire to me.


also, In what's left of manufacturing and assembly this tax code alteration will have a direct impact on employment as well, nothing pushes along automation like a change in the status quo.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Dec 1 2017 09:36am
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Dec 1 2017 09:40am
Quote (duffman316 @ Dec 1 2017 08:32am)
I don't mean outsourcing I mean operating and making money in country while shifting money around via financial magic to keep it offshore and avoid paying taxes on it


That's the whole point of reforming the tax plan and reducing corporate tax. Under Trumps plan all of that money will come back and pay a one time 10% tax, which would actually be a nice little boost.

>Wants money to come back.

>Wants to tighten taxes on money oversees

Choose one

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Dec 1 2017 09:40am
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