I see an ever increasing voice from Americans yelling "America First"...

But do the common man really know, what protectionism actually means and actually have lead to, historically?

When Russia invaded Ukraine, the world had a counter measurement, and that was trade blockades against Russia. Tariffs and embargos are used against hostile enemies, not allies. Trump is using it towards his neighbors and Europe, thinking that it will be beneficial for the US economy.

Elon Musk and Trump love to cite Milton Friedman, but they fail to cite his opinion regarding international trade and tariffs...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DhagKyvDck

During the first world war, America was a protectionists, and they lent gold backed dollars to the allies that ended up destroying Germany and seizing their assets. America wanted their loans repaid, and the allies wanted reparations from Germany, which were very arbitrary and unjust. With other words... the allies were in debt to America, the Germans were in debt to the allies.

As America were protectionists, they were not interested in purchasing goods from the rest of the world, they were only interested in selling goods to the rest of the world. With other words, America had an ever increasing trade surplus, while the rest of the world had an every increasing debt plus interest.

American productivity was donated away to countries that were forced to repay debts in assets instead of utilizing their comparative advantage to increase the aggregated global productivity and life standards.

The allies failed to see the harm in this equation, and the Germans had been turned into slaves to everyone else (in a very depressive era)...

The desperate population would do Anything to break free from the negative spiral of death.

This lead to the rise of Hitler. Hitler understood that the reparations were unjust, and he used that to his advantage to gain power.


Ukraine today is in the same position as Germany was in back then. They are in debt, Trump wants their assets and Russia wants their land.

Without a sign of any debt forgiveness (which John Maynard Keynes suggested after WW1).

Ukraine fucked up.

"everything I don't like is Hitler"

That isn't an argument

Do you mean that one single person that didn't manage to say the right words in the right situation dictates the future of Europe and America?

Like it or not, but Europe is an important trade partner to America, and the easily evident mathematically proven factors needs to be considered by the general population. Comparative advantage is beneficial for you and it is beneficial for me. Protecting infant industries is one thing, screwing up the global economy is something completely different.



No, it's history. I like Trump in many ways, I campaigned for him. But I don't like bad economic policy.

This post was edited by ium on Mar 1 2025 03:44pm

Unlike you, I care more about Ukraine's people who want better lives for themselves than whether or not they are good trade partners. I think that US needs to stop funding the war, and allow what happens, happen. Regardless of the outcome, people being allowed to move on with their lives if the best solution.

It's not bad policy.

Europe must be brought to heel. They have been acting as an enemy, not a friend, very intentionally acting parasitic & megaphoning anti-American propaganda, enacting Soviet-style totalitarian censorship regimes, for the past many decades.

This post was edited by El1te on Mar 1 2025 03:52pm

They can't "move on with their lives"... If USA get their minerals and Russia get their land... While the whole nation is in debt... How will they possibly "move on with their lives" ?

Don't forget the Trilateral process... America made a deal with Ukraine in 1993, the deal was to protect them against russian aggression in exchange to a nuclear weapon dismantel. They accepted, Russian aggression arrived, and now they suffer.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-trilateral-process-the-united-states-ukraine-russia-and-nuclear-weapons/



I acree with this, the EU is horrible. But that's politics, not economy ;P

EU is a very scary place to live in, they monitor all our electronic devices and freeze our assets if we fail to comply with an arbitrarily set of rules...

That is why we are lucky to have Elon and Trump. But we can't give up logics and reasoning just because we have feelings, we need to continue using our brains and do what is best for the majority good people in the world.

This post was edited by ium on Mar 1 2025 03:55pm

In the absence of kinetic intervention by America in Europe (round 2), economic tools are all that are available. They will be brought to heel or suffer the consequences, I told people to get the hell out of Europe years ago now they're going to stop you from leaving

We're in a complex world indeed! I love the fact that EU are getting a lesson they truly deserve! But I am not sure if it's smart to present tariffs as something that is good for America, because it's not...

People don't really understand the complexity of the situation. A lot of americans are suffering tremendously already, tariffs will not help...

What could the gameplay possibly be?

This post was edited by ium on Mar 1 2025 04:08pm

That was an agreement made with the government of Ukraine pre Revolution or Coup, whichever you call it. USA has no obligation to support Ukraine through their botched revolution or Coup or w/e.