https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/us-lifts-ban-azov-brigade-ukraine-american-weapons-russia-rcna156487
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/12/europe/us-weapons-azov-brigade-ukraine-intl/index.html

In the past day, the US state department has lifted a ban that prohibited the shipment of arms to the overt Nazis of the Azov battalion in Ukraine. In the past two years of the conflict, there was no shortage of proof the US was arming the Nazis anyway as they are seen in war footage using US weapons, but the blockade against their direct shipments of weapons was a pretense to avoid the appearance of arming Nazis with US weapons. Yesterday the state department has removed that hurdle, saying for some indeterminate amount of time we've already lifted the ban and been arming the Azov battalion directly.

Azov participated in the civil war from 2014 onwards and laid siege to the separatist regions, as they and allied Right Sector Nazis were at the forefront of the Maidan and helped overthrow the democratically elected government and killed counterprotesters. The series of battles of Mariupol dragged out and there were on and off ceasefires and offensives against the DPR, up until the Russian invasion at which point Azov led the vanguard which was crushed in 'the' battle of Mariupol, many taken prisoner. Who were then swapped in prisoner exchanges under terms that they would not rejoin the fighting, which the western forces then reneged on all too perfidiously and lead Azov back into action, where now they have been continuously involved in the fighting and posting videos to social media

The past couple years has no shortage of these self-provided clips of Nazis, often with visible swastikas or SS tattoos or wolfsangel insignias, committing war crimes with US weapons. Executing or torturing prisoners, targeting medics, etc. It seems like they're particularly involved in drone operations now, or at least that's the clips I get to see. Despite open and avowed Nazi ideology and symbolism, social media companies like Meta have greenlit Azov accounts by just handwaving normal enforcement of terms of services, so instead of whitewashing the conflict we actually just get to live in a bizarro world where the evidence of Nazi war crimes is posted in real time, while the US state department says they are just good people on both sides or something

If it destabilizes Russia, sure why not.

We did it in WW2.

This post was edited by Mondain on Jun 12 2024 09:54pm

If you start with the premise that the "Azov battalion" is relevant politically, or that the Ukraine revolution of 2014 was run by them and was completely illegitimate, it makes sense to be outraged.

But those points are obviously Russian propaganda that has been debunked on this forum, so the real question is whether the US should supply Ukraine with weapons to repel the evil empire on their border. And the answer to that is so obvious, only people on PaRD will debate it.

If you think powerful nations like Russia or China should have free reign in their parts of the world, just say so. Stop making up reasons to oppose the legitimate resistance to them. Trump cultists can't seem to argue on the merits.

This post was edited by IceMage on Jun 12 2024 10:13pm

It reveals an insecurity in the arguments of the "non-interventionists".

If supporting Ukraine or Taiwan is bad for US interests, make the argument. You shouldn't have to hide behind weirdo geopolitical conspiracy theories.

I think blinks neo conservative global moves have been great for the usa.

Use and abuse ukraine so russia has to throw resources at an unwinnable war.

Every establishment president has been great for the US, but Americans are too stupid to know it.

If they are not relevant, why is the US sending weapons to them?
Why would the Biden administration go out of its way to send weapons to an overt Nazi organization?



What makes for a 'legitimate resistance'?
Ukraine had a lawfully elected government. And folks in Kyiv rioted, and those leading the charge then- and the vanguard of the war now- were passing out fun literature like Mein Kampf and Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Those "politically irrelevant" groups overthrow the legitimate government. Those politically irrelevant Nazis got positions in government and involved themselves deeply with the top civilian and military leadership.

Again, here are the facts: They are Nazis. Joe Biden is sending them weapons.
I think the whole song and dance routine of pretending everything you don't like is Russian propaganda got tired way back with Wikileaks and the Hunter Biden laptop, but its pretty hard to deny someone is a Nazi when he gives a speech about Jews being the great enemy, gives a Heil Hitler salute and flies a Nazi flag. And then gets to work piloting an FPV drone into some medics evacuating wounded soldiers because that's what the modern day Nazis are all about. And weirdly I see all this unfold on western social media, not telegram or TASS.

Joe Biden is sending Nazis weapons. I denounce this, you support this.

no

Operation Paperclip

I'm just saying.

gonna say if the debate was "should america take weapons away from the nazis" I think it would be different