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Feb 14 2024 11:30am
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/us-belarus-ukraine/#:~:text=Ultimately%2C%20Belarus%20received%20the%20West's,unforeseen%20damage%20to%20U.S.%20interests.

An interesting article which analyzes the fallout of the (rigged) 2020 Belarusian elections.

In short, Belarus sought an independent detente with the West following the 2008 Russo-Georgian war as a means of balancing against Russia. This accelerated in the aftermath of 2014 and Maidan. Belarus repeatedly resisted Russian attempts to assert control over the country, and rejected closer military and economic integration.

Post-2020, both the EU and the US abandoned reconciliation for a policy of maximum pressure, following the fraudulent elections that summer. By supporting protesters intent on overthrowing the regime, they forced Lukashenko towards the Russian camp. Fast forward 4 years, and it's a matter of when, not if, Belarus is fully integrated into the Russian state.

TLDR - Neoliberal / neoconservative foreign policy destroyed the prospect of an independent Belarus, and added 10 million Belarusians to the Russian demographic arsenal.

This post was edited by bogie160 on Feb 14 2024 11:30am
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Feb 14 2024 11:58am
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Kazakh_unrest

How many blissful revelations
The spirit of enlightment hides!

This post was edited by Norlander on Feb 14 2024 12:02pm
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Feb 14 2024 12:04pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Feb 14 2024 06:30pm)
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/us-belarus-ukraine/#:~:text=Ultimately%2C%20Belarus%20received%20the%20West's,unforeseen%20damage%20to%20U.S.%20interests.

An interesting article which analyzes the fallout of the (rigged) 2020 Belarusian elections.

In short, Belarus sought an independent detente with the West following the 2008 Russo-Georgian war as a means of balancing against Russia. This accelerated in the aftermath of 2014 and Maidan. Belarus repeatedly resisted Russian attempts to assert control over the country, and rejected closer military and economic integration.

Post-2020, both the EU and the US abandoned reconciliation for a policy of maximum pressure, following the fraudulent elections that summer. By supporting protesters intent on overthrowing the regime, they forced Lukashenko towards the Russian camp. Fast forward 4 years, and it's a matter of when, not if, Belarus is fully integrated into the Russian state.

TLDR - Neoliberal / neoconservative foreign policy destroyed the prospect of an independent Belarus, and added 10 million Belarusians to the Russian demographic arsenal.


This surely is some kind of whataboutism. Wait for it

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Feb 14 2024 01:28pm
We got the memo already. West bad, Putin normal.

When they fire up the gas chambers, we get to say we told you so.
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Feb 14 2024 02:48pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Feb 14 2024 02:28pm)
We got the memo already. West bad, Putin normal.

When they fire up the gas chambers, we get to say we told you so.


That's not what the author is saying at all. Rather, if we're in a geopolitical contest with Russia (or China), we probably need to engage productively with the smaller, often authoritarian powers on their periphery.
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Feb 14 2024 03:07pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Feb 14 2024 08:48pm)
That's not what the author is saying at all. Rather, if we're in a geopolitical contest with Russia (or China), we probably need to engage productively with the smaller, often authoritarian powers on their periphery.


Thats exactly the reason that Russia used as a pretext to invade Ukraine.

I'm referring specifically to this idea that the wars on Russias periphery's are all as a consequence of the western approach. Something that has been debunked countless times.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Feb 14 2024 03:08pm
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Feb 14 2024 03:20pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Feb 14 2024 04:07pm)
Thats exactly the reason that Russia used as a pretext to invade Ukraine.

I'm referring specifically to this idea that the wars on Russias periphery's are all as a consequence of the western approach. Something that has been debunked countless times.


The author's point is that had we engaged with Belarus differently, there might never have been a war in Ukraine at all. By gifting Belarus to Putin, we made the invasion possible.

On your second point, it's important to consider cause and effect separate from questions of moral accountability. The refusal of Poland to accommodate German demands was the proximate cause of WW2, but it's a completely separate question to whether Poland is to blame for WW2. What I see people do far too frequently nowadays is refuse to accept cause and effect because they conflate "cause" with moral accountability.
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Feb 14 2024 03:33pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Feb 14 2024 09:20pm)
The author's point is that had we engaged with Belarus differently, there might never have been a war in Ukraine at all. By gifting Belarus to Putin, we made the invasion possible.

On your second point, it's important to consider cause and effect separate from questions of moral accountability. The refusal of Poland to accommodate German demands was the proximate cause of WW2, but it's a completely separate question to whether Poland is to blame for WW2. What I see people do far too frequently nowadays is refuse to accept cause and effect because they conflate "cause" with moral accountability.


Valid.
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