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Mar 18 2022 08:41am
Quote (fender @ 18 Mar 2022 15:31)
in that case he still could have refused to comment, or said that he's critical about their assessments, without having to outright side with pootin.

Fair enough.

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regarding NATO, trump repeatedly tried to weaken it, repeatedly snubbing his allies while cozying up to dictators and despots. the push for increased defence spending was simply a service to his domestic political allies and donors in the defence industry, and he wasn't particularly subtle about it, i vaguely remember one of his insane rants about it. to now suggest he did it because he was interested in strengthening the alliance is highly dishonest revisionist history.

I didn't claim that Trump intended to strengthen NATO, I said that he did something that would in effect strengthen NATO.

Imho, he was neither intending to weaken nor to strengthen NATO - he was driven by an isolationist agenda. His primary interest was in being able to redirect American resources toward America, which required his country's allies to assume more responsibility for their own safety. In hindsight, the war in Ukraine proves that he was right while the governments of Western European nations were wrong.
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Mar 18 2022 08:44am
Quote (fender @ Mar 18 2022 04:31pm)
just because pootin was shrewd enough to invade AFTER trump's presidency, after trump had significantly weakened ukraine's position, doesn't mean that's his successor's fault.


appointing USA's puppet as president as a result of USA alphabet "intelligence" agency-aided colour revolution in Ukraine weakened ukraine's position

Quote (fender @ Mar 18 2022 04:31pm)
regarding NATO, trump repeatedly tried to weaken it


blatant freeloaders not paying their share to NATO = them weakening it, sry lmao

Trump demanding blatant freeloaders to fully fulfill their monetary contribution that THEY disregarded for YEARS = true Social Justice, #Boss move

cry more trash
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Mar 18 2022 08:48am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 18 Mar 2022 15:41)
Fair enough.


I didn't claim that Trump intended to strengthen NATO, I said that he did something that would in effect strengthen NATO.

Imho, he was neither intending to weaken nor to strengthen NATO - he was driven by an isolationist agenda. His primary interest was in being able to redirect American resources toward America, which required his country's allies to assume more responsibility for their own safety. In hindsight, the war in Ukraine proves that he was right while the governments of Western European nations were wrong.


huh? what exactly does the war in ukraine prove him "right" about? and how does that align with him withdrawing from open skies against their expressed will, and withholding military aid to ukraine? just because his actions became public and he was forced to eventually comply with congress' decision does not mean it was his agenda to deliver those weapons, let's not confuse result and intent here...
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Mar 18 2022 09:08am
Quote (fender @ 18 Mar 2022 15:48)
huh? what exactly does the war in ukraine prove him "right" about? and how does that align with him withdrawing from open skies against their expressed will, and withholding military aid to ukraine? just because his actions became public and he was forced to eventually comply with congress' decision does not mean it was his agenda to deliver those weapons, let's not confuse result and intent here...


Obama refused to send javelins and similar arms to Ukraine. Trump approved these weapons sales and they were indeed shipped to Ukraine early in his presidency. This should not be confused with another round of military aid that he later withheld for selfish political reasons in 2019.

Ukraine proves that Trump was right about Western Europe needing to take military threats more serious and to become more proactive in ensuring their ability for self-defense instead of leaning too heavily on NATO (read: the US military) for its protection.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 18 2022 09:08am
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Mar 18 2022 09:15am
I am no fan of donald trump and i saw him undermining the integrity of america political system. However, he was 100% right to pull the EU up on their military spending. you dont have to like everything a person does and you also dont have to hate everything a person does.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 18 2022 09:16am
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Mar 18 2022 09:55am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 18 Mar 2022 16:08)
Obama refused to send javelins and similar arms to Ukraine. Trump approved these weapons sales and they were indeed shipped to Ukraine early in his presidency. This should not be confused with another round of military aid that he later withheld for selfish political reasons in 2019.

Ukraine proves that Trump was right about Western Europe needing to take military threats more serious and to become more proactive in ensuring their ability for self-defense instead of leaning too heavily on NATO (read: the US military) for its protection.


holy mother of shill, if that isn't the most generous possible spin you could have come up with. amazing you didn't break your spine twisting yourself like that. oh right, you don't have one.

in reality, he never said anything remotely along those lines. he just looked at NATO spending like he looked at trade balances: with the ignorance expected from a person clearly out of their depth, and the selfish inclination expected from a pathological narcissist. he saw that the US (first and foremost because it's in the interest of their own military industrial complex) spends a shitload of money, and did what his donors demanded from him: tell the pesky europeans to also spend even more on american arms. unsurprisingly, that's literally what he did, and again, he wasn't particularly subtle about it.

spinning this as some kind of political insight or even foresight is hilarious, especially against the background of trump repeatedly snubbing his western allies, questioning NATO, and again, making some key decisions that predictably weakened ukraine against russian aggression (funny how you keep ignoring trump's unilateral withdrawal from the open skies treaty, something the ukrainians begged him not to do).


regarding the knee-jerk reactions to russia's war (especially the german one, about as dumb, emotion-driven, and short-sighted as the premature phasing out of nuclear power - i wish we had a competent government one day...), i maintain that it's bullshit and largely useless. the aid to ukraine is easily within our current budgets, i see no reason to start yet another arms race - especially since multiple nations / military blocks already have the capacity to destroy this little planet of ours many times over.
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Mar 18 2022 10:24am
Quote (TidsL @ Mar 18 2022 02:40pm)
Exactly, the prize became a little tainted with that one, lol. Just what the duck 😭😂

(Idk about the number of drone attacks but over here in Sweden he was called bombama.)


he got the nobel prize for being black basically. black privilege.

it's funny, america's first black president and he has done nothing for the black community.
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Mar 18 2022 10:29am
Quote (SanduLungu @ Mar 18 2022 11:24am)
he got the nobel prize for being black basically. black privilege.

it's funny, america's first black president and he has done nothing for the black community.


LOL @ thinking some white privileged chud like you knows what Obama has or hasn't done for the Black community. Maybe try a source from within that community.

https://www.blackenterprise.com/president-obamas-positive-track-record-for-helping-african-americans/
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Mar 18 2022 10:31am
Quote (Surfpunk @ Mar 18 2022 11:29am)
LOL @ thinking some white privileged chud like you knows what Obama has or hasn't done for the Black community. Maybe try a source from within that community.

https://www.blackenterprise.com/president-obamas-positive-track-record-for-helping-african-americans/


Anyone who says Obama did nothing for his blackish folks clearly never heard about Obamaphones
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Mar 18 2022 02:22pm
Quote (Surfpunk @ Mar 18 2022 04:29pm)
LOL @ thinking some white privileged chud like you knows what Obama has or hasn't done for the Black community. Maybe try a source from within that community.

https://www.blackenterprise.com/president-obamas-positive-track-record-for-helping-african-americans/


blacks literally complain of obama.

lmao.

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