Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Apr 3 2022 12:44pm)

No, you are wrong. Obama basically opened the borders in totality and wanted to flood America with immigrants.

Source: Literally you

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 3 Apr 2022 19:30)

The pressure on the border went down in the aftermath of the Great Recession because America's economy was in the shitter, there's even a South Park episode from 2011 or so on how the Mexicans don't want to come to America anymore. Also note that the current Biden admin is well to the left of Obama on migration policy.

When there was a looming surge in late 2018, Trump at least tried to do something about it by implementing the MPP and similar policies while Biden's response to the 2021 surge is to (try to) loosen things even further. We don't know how high the number of border crossings would have been in 2019 without Trump's policies. It's not unrealistic that we could have seen 2021 levels of border crossings in 2019 if not for Trump's actions. This is the "prevention paradox" that you liberals loved to invoke when it came to covid.

Anyhow... we know for a fact that the situation at the border got dramatically worse as soon as Biden was sworn in and that it was far worse in 2021 than in Trump's worst year (2019), which strongly hints at all these smaller Trump era provisions and EOs (which Biden rescinded upon taking office) making a difference. Also note that the 2021 numbers were with Title 42 still in place. The only logically sound conclusion is to assume that Title 42's revocation will further increase the pressure on the border.

Quote (fender @ 3 Apr 2022 19:18)

tl;dr: when it fits your narrative, it's simply the fault of the respective president and his policies, but when it doesn't fit your simplistic "dems bad, trump king" world view, then we're doing some nuance and look at other factors to explain the situation, gotcha.
so just your usual lazy partisan hackery again... shocking...

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 3 Apr 2022 21:53)

There is no hackery in pointing out that Biden changed lots of immigration policies by rescinding Trump era EOs upon taking office, or pointing out that immigration levels surged immediately after he did that, or pointing out that Biden's first year (with Title 42 still in effect, mind you) was almost three times as bad as Trump's worst year. Thor's claim that we would now go back to the border rules which were in place in 2019 is irrefutably incorrect. And regarding your interjection, the comparison between Trump's and Biden's numbers is very strong empirical evidence in favor of these policies and presidential rhetoric making a real difference.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Apr 3 2022 02:53pm)

There is no hackery in pointing out that Biden changed lots of immigration policies by rescinding Trump era EOs upon taking office, or pointing out that immigration levels surged immediately after he did that, or pointing out that Biden's first year (with Title 42 still in effect, mind you) was almost three times as bad as Trump's worst year. Thor's claim that we would now go back to the border rules which were in place in 2019 is irrefutably incorrect. And regarding your interjection, the comparison between Trump's and Biden's numbers is very strong empirical evidence in favor of these policies and presidential rhetoric making a real difference.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Apr 3 2022 02:53pm)

There is no hackery in pointing out that Biden changed lots of immigration policies by rescinding Trump era EOs upon taking office, or pointing out that immigration levels surged immediately after he did that, or pointing out that Biden's first year (with Title 42 still in effect, mind you) was almost three times as bad as Trump's worst year. Thor's claim that we would now go back to the border rules which were in place in 2019 is irrefutably incorrect. And regarding your interjection, the comparison between Trump's and Biden's numbers is very strong empirical evidence in favor of these policies and presidential rhetoric making a real difference.

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Apr 3 2022 03:48pm)

Then we'll go back to status quo of 2016 :rolleyes:

Wow very different.

The rhetoric from Biden's administration has not been one of open borders. It's explicitly been one of keeping people away. They've actively fought to keep Title 42 in place in the courts, and the fact that he's taken away some of Trump's EO's that were pointless doesn't really change that. It just means he's not as big on cruelty for the sake of cruelty.

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 3 Apr 2022 21:48)

Then we'll go back to status quo of 2016 :rolleyes:

Wow very different.

The rhetoric from Biden's administration has not been one of open borders. It's explicitly been one of keeping people away. They've actively fought to keep Title 42 in place in the courts, and the fact that he's taken away some of Trump's EO's that were pointless doesn't really change that. It just means he's not as big on cruelty for the sake of cruelty.