But people should not have to rely on either gofundme or charity when they get unexpectedly ill. And I get that you probably think people do have to rely on charity, but a lot of people, including me, believe that healthcare should be a right in a first world country like yours.



Regardless of what you personally think should or shouldn't happen, a lot of people DO live paycheck to paycheck, and it's because they literally have no choice.



What if it's a young person that got sick? Let's say he is freshly out of college and has only been working for like a few months and he hasn't had the chance to let his savings accumulate in a savings account. He got hit with a very serious disease, and he can't afford the treatment.



I have to say I agree with you on this. People should not rely on their governments to take care of them when they are in retirement. They should plan for themselves.



No disagreement here. This is also what our government has been doing.



Allow me to ask it differently. Why do you think socialized medicine seems to work in many Western countries but not yours?

A liver transplant or dialysis will eat everything you have paid into medicaid several times over, and the remainder will shift onto everybody else because of your poor choices.

Student loans still on deferment nationally. I'm not shifting them onto anybody lol. I'm completely abiding by the loan agreement. I've also saved my current place of employment about my entire salary since I started working there. I'm making taxpayer money go further

This post was edited by NetflixAdaptationWidow on Sep 9 2021 04:48pm

1. Taxed money is money taken at gunpoint. Don't believe me? Don't pay your taxes and see who comes knocking. Access to healthcare IS a right. Healthcare itself involves product and labor. Those have to be paid for. Paying for them by stealing from the healthy is unacceptable.
2. A lot of people living paycheck to paycheck are still paying for health insurance they do not use. Were they to, as I suggest, NOT pay for insurance, and either drop the cash into a savings account or the market, or at least into an HSA with unlimited rollover, they'd be fine.
3. Buy insurance then. One of the wonderments of the ACA is that preexisting conditions is not an acceptable reason for denial. The Boomers abused the hell out of that. Why shouldn't the young person the boomers are trying to use to pay all their shit?
4&5. Precisely. These are the people you want dictating health?
6. In general, it doesn't. And socialized healthcare systems all over the western world are seeing their systems buckling due to covid. They're taking extreme amounts more cash, unable to care for the level of patients, and just absolutely floored. Why? Because they operate on a "near capacity" business model, exactly the same as the US healthcare system, in order to cut costs. So when shit hits the fan, they are completely unprepared to deal with it.



Is this your idea of a "gotcha post"? If so, you're terrible. Learn to think with something other than your ego. If I suffer organ failure, I'll die. I see no need to take somebody else's organ just to kill it too. Unlike you pasty privileged progressives, I fully understand that one day I will die. I don't need to steal other people's money to try to live an extra year. In the event my liver fails, I will die. My medical costs? Enough painkillers to keep me from screaming. Oh, but in Oregon... Seems I can save both the cost and the pain, no?

You're making taxpayer money go farther... By shifting your personal student loans onto the taxpayer while taking a job already funded by taxpayers? That's outstanding! Now put down the Family sized pizza you're snacking on and go get some exercise. We're already out more than enough for you. Don't need you to be a "breakthrough case" and end up on a ventilator.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Sep 9 2021 04:59pm

Definitely a way to organize society. "We all die, so let everybody die". Yep, you've solved it. You're so smart.

Correct. Why would we bother with a heart transplant for a 400 pound obese person? Why would we bother with a lung transplant for a chain smoker? Why would we bother with a liver transplant for an alcoholic? All of these things are nothing more than people attempting to get another year out of life. What are they doing with that extra year? Exactly the same shit that put them in that position in the first place.

We have no obligation to save people from themselves. If they want to be self-destructive, they can die. Simple as that. Hence why I have absolutely no sympathy for all the 400 pound "perfectly healthy" behemoths dying from Covid. Good. Hope they went fast enough to save on insurance and medicaid costs. Maybe their relatives will learn from their mistakes and invest a bit of time on a stairmaster rather than eating 2 pound bricks of cheese for a light snack.

We don't do any of those things unless there's evidence they have stopped. If you are on the transplant list and ever test postive for alcohol you're booted. No questions asked.

Regardless if you get a transplant your medical care will still eat all your contributions.

You guys construct these elaborate fantasies like the world is full of obese people eating all the cost of healthcare, when in reality it's just... everybody. Everybody needs significant healthcare at some point in their life.

This post was edited by NetflixAdaptationWidow on Sep 9 2021 05:17pm

The only person constructing fantasies here is you. We know the Covid death statistics. We know those covid hospitalization statistics that're actually released. Not healthy people. Obese people. Old people. People with heart disease, etc.

I will say though, those who aren't looking to be a burden on the system? Happy for them to pay their own way into a new liver, heart, kidney, lung, leg, arm, penis, eyeball, rectum, or whatever else they want attached. Hell, if they want to become the 12 cocked wonder of modern medicine, I support their dedication! As long as they pay for it themselves. So when Bill Gates has a frankenbody built and has his brain transplanted in? A-OKAY by me.

This is assuming that diseases are caused entirely by poor life-style choices. But what about people who have genetic diseases? Or people who got sick really young, before they had the chance to indulge in poor habits? And what about people who eat healthy, exercise regularly, yet still got sick?

What about them? They all have the option to pay for their healthcare. They all have the option to save for their medical costs. They all have the option for insurance. If you're speaking of children, they've been covered under medicaid for 30 years, they're not a problem.

You're pulling out all these outliers, like, "Well what about this special circumstance?!" Okay, if that's truly the circumstance, and they can't afford insurance or medical costs or anything, yet are an adult, it's time for them to find charity. I have no obligation to give up my bread and butter so that they can eat. I worked for what is mine, they have never done shit for me.

The public option isn't about saving people. It's about taking charity out of the hands of those honestly seeking to help others, putting it into the hands of high paid government officials, who now get to determine who lives and dies by the merit of their policies, all while removing choice from the equation, and replacing it with a loaded weapon and the words that sunk Al Capone: Tax Evasion.