Quote (Meanwhile @ Mar 31 2024 08:02pm)

It was all predicted decades ago:

https://orientxxi.info/magazine/de-gaulle-the-jews-a-people-sure-of-itself-and-domineering,1984

‘If Israel is attacked, I said in essence, we will not allow it to be destroyed, but if you attack, we will condemn your initiative. Of course, in spite of your smaller population, and considering you are better organized, much more closely knit, and much better armed than the Arabs, I have no doubt that in the event you will prevail in military terms. However, you will then find yourselves increasingly mired in difficulties, both on the ground and internationally, all the more so as a war in the Middle East cannot fail to increase deplorable tensions across the world and have unfortunate consequences for many lands. And little by little you, as the victors, will be held responsible for all the harms caused.’ As we know, the voice of France was ignored and Israel did attack and in six days achieved all of its objectives.

He was criticized for this :

"the Jews, hitherto widely dispersed and who had remained what they had always been, in other words, an elite people, sure of itself and domineering, once they were together again in the lands of their former grandeur might transform into a burning, conquering ambition the heart-moving wishes voiced over nineteen long centuries: “next year in Jerusalem.”


=> Today we may have to make a clear spot and specify: "The Israelis who are supportnig Netanyahu & its related Neo-Zionist governement."

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 31 2024 10:34pm)

I preferred the conclusion which reads:

...Against all odds, de Gaulle stuck to his guns and kept demanding a return to June 4, 1967, frontiers. Soon afterwards, France would also realize the importance of the Palestinian factor in the new crisis. Politically isolated on the domestic front, de Gaulle also distanced himself from the positions taken by France’s western allies, especially the United States. And yet as the years went by, these positions would be taken up by his successors, including those who, like Valéry Giscard d’Estaing (1974-1981) and François Mitterrand (1981-1995) had been severely critical of them. And in the nineteen eighties, these positions would come to be shared by the entire “international community”: condemnation of military land-grabbing; self-determination for the Palestinians; need for negotiating with the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO).

A passage from the press conference of 27 November 1967 shows just how prescient de Gaulle’s perception was:

Now it (Israel) is organizing on the territories it has taken an occupation which necessarily involves oppression, repression and expulsions, and these are met with a resistance which it in turn calls terrorism. . .

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 31 2024 11:07pm)

ye i disagree with you on this point you make.

Quote (ferdia @ 31 Mar 2024 17:17)

its a rhetorical question? i believe the arab nations declared war though. if this is not the answer, this is still the most salient point / event after the declaration, in my opinion. This is however not relevant to the position held, but rather it is a historical point of fact. The statement was that my position on Israel is different from my position re: Russia, and I outlined my reasons why. The international community bestowed Israel on the Israeli people. The Arab countries were affronted by this and declared war. Israel won the war. In the aftermath of the war Israel claimed more land by right of conquest and this was the birth/inception of the mass displacement of arabs/palestinians which continues to this day. ultimately the UN decision looks to have been flawed. The UN should have gotten consensus with the countries in the region before going down this path. At this point, its all just footnotes in history, you cant change the past, better to try to find a future.

I will ask you a question:

Do you believe that the Israeli government is seeking to remove all Palestinians from Greater Israel (Gaza, The West Bank and Israel as a whole) Yes or No? feel free to expand your response beyond the binary answer.

Quote (Many_Names @ Mar 31 2024 09:33pm)

to answer your question, no.
we have no interest in greater Israel this is Palestinian propaganda.
if we wanted greater Israel we would simply take it, Syria is complete trash, Jordan is no match... and we wouldn't return sinai peninsula to the Egyptians.

We Israelis do not want to fight more wars, we dont want to expand, we dont want to remove Palestinians from their homes.
we simply want to live in peace and quiet.
something this terrible neighborhood is uncappable of.

we were never taught violence is the way, no one told us to die for our cause.
for example: when I was a kid my teacher taught us about the deir yasin massacre, he represented it as if the Arabs are the ones committed the massacre and all the kids in the class were pissed, in the end he told us the truth that the Lehi and the Etzel a jewish organizations that eventually became the Hagana were the ones who did it.
he wanted to show us how terrible this was.
they taught us compassion, they taught us empathy, we on the contrary live with the Israeli Arabs peacefully, my Gym Partner is Muslim Arab, I'v been in his house hundreds of times I know his entire family and he knows mine.
now that is not something special its like that all over Israel.
do you know where you do not have those friendships between arabs and jews?
In the West Bank and In Gaza you know why? because they will kill us on spot.

Quote (Meanwhile @ 31 Mar 2024 23:57)

Yet the real threat is these far right/religious crazies who actually don't really like christians that much...
If too much "isolated" or condemned I think they could try to provoke waves of false flag terror attacks in Europe in order to get back some support; some of them are REALLY ready to do this kind of stuff.
This is my opinion and i firmly stand on this, this is reason of state which can excuse many unacceptable and vicious things.

Quote (ferdia @ 1 Apr 2024 00:35)

if its not a rhetorical question then you need to provide the answer to your question. I am not prepared to debate in bad faith.

Quote (Many_Names @ Mar 31 2024 09:38pm)

does it look like I debate in bad faith?