you're using a false binary. someone can be joking in the direction of a real point.

antifa doesnt cause deaths, but are verified leftists. including them in the death counts is a joke in the fact that they cause deaths, but real in the fact that they are leftists.

black supremicists are a bit of a mixed bag, they do cause deaths but not on a grand scale, and are again verified leftists.

islamic terrorists cause a LOT of deaths, and while they aren't leftists on a general political spectrum they do have support from the left tangentially, and they have similar aims on many issues.

that's the joke, one whimpy group that are leftists in america, one luke warm group that are also leftists, and one group that is deadly and arent leftists in truth, but get support and apologetics from leftists. the joke in there is lumping islamics with leftists.

you're essentially taking the punchline at face value, and then getting mad at a hyperbolic statement made for effect as if it's literal. the whole "joke" in there is making the stretch that islamic terrorists are literally aligned with the american mainstream left, when reality is both more complicated and watered down.

his posts have been defending a connection and point, not a literal alliance with the left.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Feb 4 2020 08:13am

They have a death count going already. Its not a big one, but theres bodies in the ground



More frequent lower kill count per attack compared to white supremacists, mostly surged in the BLM years. Otherwise daily mundane hate crimed

Virtually every group "has a death count going" if you include any loony who claims association with them or who commits a crime unrelated to the goals of the organization.

Even the tea party murdered police officers about a mile away from me while I was on my honeymoon in Vegas.

every group has a literal kill count, im sure the Philadelphia Eagles fans have a kill count. their public violent riots are more problematic than their terrorist activity to my eyes. allegations of weapons, throwing batteries, pepper spraying people, etc.


black supremacists i think are ever present but fairly benign on a grand scale. i'll change my mind on that when a large attack happens. so far most of what ive seen is sucker punching people in large cities from loosely associated membership.



i think u need to measure kill count AND levels of association and common goals. antifa is fairly together compared to something like BLM, they're more than hashtag. but also not fatal in most cases, just violent leftists.



silence speaks volumes. islamic terror is a real problem, all attempts to stem it have been from the right except maybe centrist warhawks like Sec Clinton. im still waiting for a major leftist move against islamic terror, just so all this "it needs to be done sensibly" talk can be backed up.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Feb 4 2020 08:30am

Islamism is pretty firmly right-wing. It's a religious supremacy ideology.

The left doesn't act "against any measures to contain islamism". That's only true if you take truly stupid attempts to "contain islamism" like Trump's travel ban from countries from which we've never had an Islamic attack.

again, i agree that his reasoning and conclusion are 'a joke' - but i just don't agree that he is 'joking'.

not only would that be highly unusual, he also made several posts doubling down on his idiocy, and most importantly, it is completely in line with his usual propaganda and grotesque bendings of the truth in order to create anti-left and pro-trump narratives.

Well when CNN goes out looking for an example of the group and finds one of their most prominent members in the area and interviews him for TV and a few weeks later he commits a suicide firebomb and rifle attack, recognized and acknowledged as an active member of the group by all his peers, even leaving behind a soundtrack pledging his antifa membership and a manifesto saying "I am antifa", I'm not inclined to let it be dismissed with a No True Scotsman.

I don't see why we can't acknowledge the 2014 vegas shootings as terrorism at least partly motivated by tea party ideology. I mean, they shouted "this is a revolution" and brought a Gadsden flag (and swastika). They clearly had other issues compounded with those motivations (and no shortage of... issues).



Also I should point out that I use the word "alignment" for good reason
I wouldn't describe the left and right as alliances. Groups lumped together in the left or in the right, don't necessarily support other groups in the left or right. There's plenty of far-right groups that having seething hatred for moderate-right groups. Honestly, just oddswise I'd say Donald Trump's more likely to be assassinated by a neo-nazi than a deranged liberal (if not for odds of trying, then for the respective track record of competency in attacks by either group). And there are far-left groups like anarcho-marxists who say "Liberals get the bullet too". Would anyone describe a marxist as right-wing? Or a neo-nazi as left-wing? Well, maybe the latter when they delude themselves by pointing out the socialism in 'national socialism', as if economic ideology had any bearing on political alignment.

The point being, groups are aligned politically, by association, by mutual support, by shared goals, by shared ideologies, by having the same enemies, etc etc. They don't necessarily agree on everything and they might even oppose each other, but still be aligned opposite to the 'other side'. And as far as being able to tell which side is which- like Justice Potter said: I know it when I see it. Anyone pretending that islamists are aligned with the right instead of the left is kidding themselves. Left-wing groups associated themselves with regressive islam, they vote nearly 100% for democrats, are disproportionately represented in far-left political activism like the progressive caucus or Bernie's campaign, you've got the black muslim side dominated by the likes of Farrakhan who is a democratic surrogate and gatekeeper of a voting bloc, etc etc.

you're trying to put islamists in the "right" of a traditional political spectrum, how does this not explain the whole thing?



as i said in my first post, AMERICAN LEFT, not political compass left.


we're 3 pages in and all i said in my first post has checked out, other than a tiny bit more seriousness on antifa while also acknowledging their low kill count.

black supremacists are the 3rd most deadly recently after islam and white supremacists.
There's some overlap with islamic terrorism since much of it was motivated by black islam which is at least somewhat distinct from the arab & persian muslim terror attacks, and a few cases where its difficult to classify

4 victims + 2 attackers dead in the Jersey City attack a couple months ago. A car ramming attack in philly on cops might have been an instance. A church mass shooting 'revenge' attack, 3 cops assassinated in baton rouge, 5 in dallas, 2 in NYC, and a handful of other single death attacks I cba to look up details about

Ya lower body count mixed with not concrete connections would have me not mentioning those 3 in the same sentence. they're important and a problem, just different.

white supremacists dont even have the concrete ties of islamic terrorists. we always get a list of incel message boards and books they've read, its not like they're a well organized group. they just seem to have some really high efficiency in body counts. its of course arguable where school shooters and white supremacists seem to align, they're white males but dont seem to be consistently supremicists. just enough data points for the media to draw that connection.