The following is my view of the overarching position in Israel. If you want to refute or debate any or all of these points, pick one (or more) and we can debate it (or them) to its (or their) finality.
1. It is accepted that most of the world did not want their Jewish minorities and at a point in time these minorities were encouraged (america/england) or forced(arab states?) to move (to Israel, or simply, from where they were), to their ancestral lands (for want of a better expression). This is a VERY SIMPLIFIED statement and no offense intended.
2. Modern Israel was artificially "created". Again, this is a VERY SIMPLIFIED statement and no offense intended. However, the key word is "artificially". Israel, as I understand it, has an open doors policy for Jewish people, from all over the world, to emigrate, to Israel. approx 1.9M people have availed of this option since 1948 to date. The net affect is creating a brotherhood, or extended family, with key life values. Or, a religious state, highly nationalistic with a fundamentalist governments. This is intrinsically problematic. While it is true that societies exist in the world like this, say China with its re-education programs, fundamentally it is not a religious state. Yes it has its own issues but they are not as problematic as those in Israel. This is because China is massive, with a massive population and it can sustain issues and it has no peer competitors / opponents on its borders. Israel is tiny, with a tiny population and it has peer competitors on its borders that it continues to provoke.
3. The current population of Israel is 9M people. The countries in close proximity have a total population in excess of 400M. Israel has made no attempts to integrate non jewish people into their society or to integrate themselves into the broader society outside of their borders. in effect it is a case of "us vs them". This is not a sustainable position in my opinion, especially when it involves sustained armed conflict over the last number of decades and for the foreseeable future.
4. The issue in the westbank, and in greater israel, of forced displacement, which is basically ethnic cleansing, is expected (in my view) to continue until it reaches the point that only jewish people (or those that conform to jewish values) live in greater Israel (for want of a better expression) which includes the west bank. This could take decades. until that time arrives, there can be no re-education of non jewish people in "greater israel" as each subsequent displacement undermines any re-education effort and it invites a second 10/7. By re-education i refer to convincing non jewish people to turn the other cheek and not get irritated when they are displaced or killed.
5. It is a fact that Israel is not treating its minorities well. If anyone disagrees with this statement, do so and we can debate it. I am not talking about how Israel is being treated, I am talking about how it is treating its minorities. Over the last 5 years Gaza's population swelled, not exclusively via birth rates, but via the influx of refugees, or to use a more apt term, more migrants/prisoners from greater israel who had their homes seized as part of a concerted effort to create more space, in israel, for Israeli Jews. Therefore like a pot of water boiling, it was only a matter of when, not if, it boiled over, as it did on 10/7.
6. Israel does not subscribe to proportionate response. it values its jewish citizens more highly then it does non jewish people. this could be seen in the prisoner exchange where 1 jew is released on one side and 1000 non jews released on the other side. or to be brutal, the death toll on 10/7 vs the current death toll of non jewish people. This disproportionate response is far beyond what has been happening in the Ukraine:Russia conflict and it is brain dead as far as I am concerned. Israels problem is that it has and continues to held to a higher standard. Israel is not meant to be compared to North Korea, Nazi Germany, The Congo, South Africa, Iran or Iraq, it is meant to be compared to western countries, like the US, France, Germany, who (to a degree) are perceived (see what i did there) to have a degree of moral values and are perceived (sorry could not help myself) to be the good guys. The United States does not torture people in America (they do it in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba), England does not burn babies alive (anymore) and France does not steal (well, they dont report what they do in Africa). The problem for Israel is that all of their dirty laundry is being accentuated by their dogmatic insistence of bombing Gaza into the stone age. All of their historic (and current) crimes are being handed out like flyers all over the world, and rather then trying to de-escalate the situation, Israel is adding fuel to the fire which is the foundation for decades of future conflict and no allies on the international stage. While some Israeli's may say they dont need allies, i beg to differ.
Therefore, my position is as follows: Israels future is one of future wars, more events such as 10/7 are inevitable, and while a new Israeli government will be able to mend its fences with the US, the young americans that grow up are going to remember this massacre (its not a war) and a new generation of politicians in the US (accepted 40 years away) will not have Israels back. This is why it is my position that Israel needs to learn to turn the other cheek and show restraint. A rethink is required by IDF leaders on how they conduct themselves and a rethink is required in Israeli politic's. there is NO evidence that this will occur therefore the days and years ahead, are dark for israel.
This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 27 2024 02:16pm