You didn't have any points worth addressing tbh. Are you really this desperate to attribute some 'win' to Biden that you think a photo shoot in Kiev that has been preceded by a bunch of Hollywood people and other leaders is noteworthy?

There were no strikes on Kiev that day, and no air strikes the whole week. The reason given for the air siren to be going off is that a Russian jet was scrambled in Belarus... It's just pure hilarity that you're so enamored by political theatre.

zelenskyy and putin are both laughing at you.

The long-term strategic interest lies not so much in Ukraine itself, but rather in upholding the U.S.-led international order and sending a signal to prospective aggressors in other places (most notably China with regard to Taiwan) that violations of said order come at a prohibitively heavy price. And like thor mentioned, it is safer to stop Russian expansion while the conflict is not about a NATO member and Article 5 is not immediately triggered. See my comments below:



Poland is not the problem imho; they're a large country with a large population, a competent military and decent amounts of strategic depth. If necessary, Poland can hold its own for at least a few months. Furthermore, Poland is located hundreds of kilometers away from Russian territory, so the logistics of a Russian invasion of Poland would be difficult and necessitate the buildup of logistics infrastructure in Belarus and/or Western Ukraine, thus tipping off the coming invasion and giving us plenty of time to prepare.

The true achilles heel of NATO if Putin was trying to expose Article 5 as a bluff are the Baltic states. Estonia, in particular, has a sizable Russian minority which can be used to repeat the playbook from the Donbass. It also borders Russia directly. And Estonia is so small and irrelevant that it's indeed questionable whether the rest of NATO would be willing to go to nuclear war against Russia to defend it.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 5 2023 01:44am

exporting crotch ideology



This post was edited by TiStuff on Mar 5 2023 01:57am

Well, it happens to be what happened, lol.

I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand. Biden's visit symbolizes the US support for Ukraine. It's a representation of his policy. It's a moment to be proud to be American because the visit symbolizes our support for a country trying to maintain it's sovereignty and democracy against an evil regime.



No, you're just not able to competently rebut any of my points, so you simply turn to repeating the same talking points.

Your consistent nihilism is duly noted, and I'm not a shrink so I don't know how to convince you that things in this world matter, but the president visiting Kiev during a war, which represents the US government and West's position of supporting Ukraine against Russia, is obviously noteworthy and historic.

lol motorboating, had to look it up
well? there goes the leftie claims donny is a tranaphobe. another tuff break

There was literally nothing to rebut. You literally gave a long winded explanation how historic it is for Biden to visit a 'warzone' and how its so extremely important and symbolic. It's not a warzone, evidenced by the fact that you have tons of high profile people going in an out regularly without any threat that Russia will attack those visitors. Nor is it significant because we already knew our position/support for Ukraine, that visit literally changed nothing, Biden just really wanted his Hillary 'landing under sniper fire moment' and Zelensky is always up for people going there.



Plenty of us here discuss this war regularly and know what are some of the central and important themes. Don't come in here calling people conspiracy theorists in some smug way for not giving a shit about non-events. You're right that you represent the general population tbh. Wildly ignorant of actual things that matter (that pertain to this conflict).

As is, Ukraine will share a border with Russia. Belarus is already a Russian controlled puppet state. Belarus, Ukraine, and Moldova are incredibly poor places, whether they're under the Russian thumb or not means a great deal to their people, but not to the rest of us.

It's very unlikely that Russia would invade Poland, because as we've seen their military lacks the means to conquer a far weaker opponent, and the Poles are backed by NATO arms and guarantees.

Russia calculated that they could win in Ukraine quickly and present a fait accompli to Western leaders. They are not going to invoke article 5 by invading Latvia (the most likely candidate) because they're well aware that they would lose that war. There's a difference between attacking a "neutral" country no has pledged to defend, and invading a country in formal alliance with the world's leading powers.



I accept and agree with the point around Taiwan. It's important to demonstrate that the United States will defend even certain non-treaty members. But that could be done by ending strategic ambiguity and formalizing a defense treaty with Taiwan. I sympathize with Ukraine, but I don't see it as an essential US interest.

This post was edited by bogie160 on Mar 5 2023 02:29pm

bogus dude got top surgery