Quote (IceMage @ 1 Nov 2016 15:00)

He explicitly said the Libyan invasion was "the right thing to do".

All we did was tip the scales against Gaddafi, partly in order to protect civilians, and I don't think there's any good reason to believe that had we not intervened and Gaddafi maintained the upper hand, Libya would be any more stable right now.

Quote (ThatAlex @ Nov 1 2016 03:09pm)

There is good reason to think that.

The most stable condition Libya could be in would overthrowing Gaddafi and occupying Libya with thousands of American troops for many years, which would have been the amount of intervention required for the initial invasion to work like Obama described - an investment Obama's administration clearly and wisely didn't want to make.

The least stable condition Libya could be in would overthrowing Gaddafi and then not providing significant ground support to stabilize the region, which is exactly what we did.

Quote (IceMage @ 1 Nov 2016 15:34)

I don't think either is true, tbh. NATO(and America) could have done a number of things to help the transition without occupying Libya for years with tens of thousands of troops.

There's always a tradeoff between stability and mass killing/genocide. Sure, maybe after Gaddafi spent years rounding up every rebel(including their families) and massacring them, Libya would be more stable today. There's experts that believe that would have been the worst option possible.

Here's an interesting article:
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/markaz/2016/04/12/everyone-says-the-libya-intervention-was-a-failure-theyre-wrong/

I think most experts were in favor of intervening, and the real division was focused on what to do after Gaddafi fell.

Quote (timmayX @ Nov 1 2016 03:18pm)

These quotes are about as good as each other. A new classic from Voyaging for the end of the election too.

Quote

ST. PAUL, Minn. - There's still a week until voters across America cast their ballots to choose the country's next president, but here in Minnesota, one group of citizens has already spoken.

Minnesota Students Vote 2016 is the first statewide mock election for high school students, sponsored by the Office of the Secretary of State. More than 77,000 voters from 213 high schools across Minnesota cast their ballot for President.

The result:

Trump/Pence, Republican - 34.79 percent
Clinton/Kane, DFL - 32.89 percent
Write-in - 9.25 percent
Vacek/Elworth, Legal Marijuana Now - 5.93 percent
Johnson/Weld, Libertarian - 5.68 percent
Stein/Hawkins, Green Party - 3.59 percent
Castle/Bradley, Constitution Party - 1.28 percent
De la Fuente/Steinberg, American Delta Party - 1.51 percent
Kennedy/Hart, Socialist Workers Party - .86 percent
Spoiled Ballots - 1.89 percent

Quote (Skinned @ Nov 1 2016 02:05pm)

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/31/politics/john-kasich-donald-trump-john-mccain-endorsement/index.html

Ouch

Quote (Skinned @ Nov 1 2016 02:05pm)

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/31/politics/john-kasich-donald-trump-john-mccain-endorsement/index.html

Ouch

Quote (ThatAlex @ 1 Nov 2016 21:34)

The executive chairman of Alphabet, Eric Schmidt, offered a campaign plan to Hillary Clinton’s closest aides back in 2014.

Looks like there could be a lot of truth to Google manipulating their search engine and search results in favor of the Dems and HRC.

Facebook, Twitter, Google...the Left has assembled quite a powerful team in recent years.

Combine that with the Obama administration's historically awful treatment of whisteblowers, and we might be well on our way to witnessing the rise of the Orwellian Left in America.