Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 4 2023 05:22pm)

US commitment to provide Ukraine was evident with 100+ Bn of aid in 2022 and the hundreds of speeches we've heard from the administration, republicans, democrats, literally everyone. Him going there doe not a change the status quo, therefore it's not significant nor is there much symbolism because we already knew this administrations position. Nothing changed pre versus post visit, it was a photoshoot and just a public display, both for our public and Ukraine's public.

If Xi Jinping tomorrow announced that he will be going to Kiev in a show of support, something like that would be fucking massive. Even Scholz going there after doing a 180 with the Leopards was massive, because once again let me spell it out, it shows some different course versus prior, therefore significant.

Quote (IceMage @ Mar 4 2023 06:00pm)

I think it's worth adding that Biden visiting Ukraine, and walking Kiev to the sound of air raid sirens with the Ukrainian president, is the proudest I've felt as an American for several years. The last time I've felt a similar feeling was after Obama announced the killing of Bin Laden.

The default commentary for PaRD, and much of news commentary, is cynicism and nihilism. Patriotic Americans should resist this.

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Mar 4 2023 03:16pm)

Yep. Where the president spends his time is massively significant.

He's taking a huge L on the train derailment and using that to support Ukraine. It shows he's in it for the long haul on Ukraine and not so much on labor and health issues at home.

Probably gonna cost him in the next election but I doubt he realizes how bad it looks. Sends a pretty big signal that he isn't going to support unions and workers but will bend over for the military contractors.

Quote (IceMage @ Mar 4 2023 04:00pm)

I think it's worth adding that Biden visiting Ukraine, and walking Kiev to the sound of air raid sirens with the Ukrainian president, is the proudest I've felt as an American for several years. The last time I've felt a similar feeling was after Obama announced the killing of Bin Laden.

The default commentary for PaRD, and much of news commentary, is cynicism and nihilism. Patriotic Americans should resist this.

Quote (IceMage @ 5 Mar 2023 01:00)

I think it's worth adding that Biden visiting Ukraine, and walking Kiev to the sound of air raid sirens with the Ukrainian president, is the proudest I've felt as an American for several years. The last time I've felt a similar feeling was after Obama announced the killing of Bin Laden.

The default commentary for PaRD, and much of news commentary, is cynicism and nihilism. Patriotic Americans should resist this.

Quote (TiStuff @ Mar 4 2023 07:29pm)

your saying ukraine is a scam?

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Mar 4 2023 05:34pm)

Nope. It's a worthy fight to take that just happens to line up with the interests of military contractors.

By visiting Joe is showing where his priorities are.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 4 2023 08:33pm)

Meh, "Biden walking the streets of Kyiv to the sound of sirens" sounds like something straight out of a jingoistic Hollywood production, but is ultimately not very meaningful. If there is something you as a patriotic American should feel proud of, it's Biden's and America's leadership in resisting Russia's aggression, the way he kept the West united and firmly on the side of Ukraine.

Biden has put doing what's morally right and in our long-term strategic interest above short-term self-interest, and THAT is what you should feel proud of, not some melodramatic imagery. It would have been sooooo easy to go "Ukraine is a corrupt shithole anyway, let Putin have it, keeping inflation low and gas cheap is more important than the self-determination of some people 5000km away."

Quote (bogie160 @ Mar 4 2023 09:41pm)

What long-term strategic interest does the United States have in Ukraine? Did democracy collapse in the West when Operation Unthinkable was canned?