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Feb 3 2020 10:56pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 3 2020 08:42pm)
there are various studies conducted among European muslims showing that a majority of them considers the laws of their religion (read: shariah law) to be more important/standing above the secular laws of their host nation. for example the sciics study:
https://www.wzb.eu/de/forschung/migration-und-diversitaet/migration-integration-transnationalisierung/projekte/six-country-immigrant-integration-comparative-survey-sciics
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2013/12/13/how-widespread-is-islamic-fundamentalism-in-western-europe/?utm_term=.942c154b6313


My city is pretty diversified.. I get no shit from Muslim people ever. More BS from white trash.. I am going to agree with you 100% that when it comes to L being to lenient on the "crazy" by the book people.. absolutely.
And probably not the point thor is trying to make.. but factually we have more white power crime in the US vs Muslim. If opinions followed facts we would all be worried about heart disease and giving 2 fucks about Muslims
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Feb 3 2020 11:00pm
Quote (thundercock @ Feb 3 2020 03:51pm)
What percent of the Democratic party is "the left?"


We can probably start with the 85% that want Trump thrown from office. In reality, I'd think everyone to the left of Biden. He's not a bad guy (albeit corrupt, but who isn't) in the grand scheme of things, but the party has passed him by.
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Feb 3 2020 11:02pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Feb 3 2020 09:00pm)
We can probably start with the 85% that want Trump thrown from office. In reality, I'd think everyone to the left of Biden. He's not a bad guy (albeit corrupt, but who isn't) in the grand scheme of things, but the party has passed him by.


Factually, look up some independent studies.. the R has strayed from center far more than the left
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Feb 3 2020 11:08pm
Quote (theCrossbones @ Feb 4 2020 12:02am)
Factually, look up some independent studies.. the R has strayed from center far more than the left


If you want to make an argument that the United States has moved to the right economically over the span of decades, with your starting point in the late 60s early 70s, you have a case.

But in the last twenty years, the country has moved decisively to the left on economic and social policies, and it isn't particularly close. We've gone from "Deportation King" Obama to "Open borders or you're out!" 2020 Democrat class. From a democratic party that was almost universally opposed to gay marriage to legitimate 2020 contenders vowing to let trans high school students decide their cabinet picks.

This isn't limited to the left, though. Let's not forget that Bush Jr campaigned actively on the promise of reforming Social Security. Fast forward to 2016 and Trump vows to never touch it.
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Feb 3 2020 11:19pm
Some truth to trump. He follows almost no true conservative points. IE deficit. Morals. Lol
Crashing I’ll post some stuff later . Shit on one of these pages you can even see a graph showing the from center movement from senators is more on the R. Small but there I’ll have to check how accurate it is.


Yea don’t count me in on the ridiculous Warren statement

This post was edited by theCrossbones on Feb 3 2020 11:19pm
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Feb 3 2020 11:21pm
Quote (theCrossbones @ 4 Feb 2020 06:02)
Factually, look up some independent studies.. the R has strayed from center far more than the left


not true.

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Feb 3 2020 11:50pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 4 Feb 2020 05:42)
there are various studies conducted among European muslims showing that a majority of them considers the laws of their religion (read: shariah law) to be more important/standing above the secular laws of their host nation. for example the sciics study:
https://www.wzb.eu/de/forschung/migration-und-diversitaet/migration-integration-transnationalisierung/projekte/six-country-immigrant-integration-comparative-survey-sciics
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2013/12/13/how-widespread-is-islamic-fundamentalism-in-western-europe/?utm_term=.942c154b6313


it's funny how certain people quoting that study never link to this follow-up (by the same author):

https://www.wzb.eu/en/research/migration-and-diversity/migration-integration-transnationalization/projects/religious-fundamentalism-and-radicalization-in-comparative-perspective

Quote
While the study revealed large differences between the two religious groups even when controlled for a range of socio-economic and demographic variables, the limitation of the study to two Muslim ethnic groups as well as the fact that it compared Muslims of immigrant origin to autochthonous Christians limits the generalizability of its findings. Moreover, the SCIICS survey did not include questions about support for religiously-motivated violence and extremist religious organizations.


also, the study itself clarifies that 'fundamentalist' does not necessarily mean violent, and that, in fact, most fundamentalist groups are NOT violent. furthermore, replying that you consider religious law more important in a survey, obviously doesn't mean that one would violate secular laws in a possible scenario where they could be in conflict (which is rare enough on its own).

but i'm sure you actually read the study you're quoting, and are aware of all of that, and that any suggestions to the contrary are unintended and purely accidental.
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Feb 4 2020 12:22am
Quote (fender @ Feb 4 2020 12:50am)
it's funny how certain people quoting that study never link to this follow-up (by the same author):

https://www.wzb.eu/en/research/migration-and-diversity/migration-integration-transnationalization/projects/religious-fundamentalism-and-radicalization-in-comparative-perspective



also, the study itself clarifies that 'fundamentalist' does not necessarily mean violent, and that, in fact, most fundamentalist groups are NOT violent. furthermore, replying that you consider religious law more important in a survey, obviously doesn't mean that one would violate secular laws in a possible scenario where they could be in conflict (which is rare enough on its own).

but i'm sure you actually read the study you're quoting, and are aware of all of that, and that any suggestions to the contrary are unintended and purely accidental.





Well, that's good news! We can now just drop flyers, all over the middle east telling them they are welcome in Germany.
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Feb 4 2020 05:42am
Quote (Skinned @ Feb 1 2020 09:29pm)
Here comes the richest part of the entire process: now that the president can't be held accountable a bunch of evidence will come out completely detailing his crime and all the Senators and Representatives who helped him cover up the crime will act upset about it. They all did this with the Iraq War, bitching for about 10 years about a war they authorized...They did this when they authorized the GLBA 1999 and created too big to fail banks too.


https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/03/politics/lisa-murkowski-trump-impeachment-vote/index.html

Quote
Republican Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska announced Monday that she "cannot vote to convict" President Donald Trump in the Senate impeachment trial but nevertheless called his actions "shameful and wrong."

In remarks on the Senate floor Monday evening, the senator had strong words for Trump, saying, "The President's behavior was shameful and wrong. His personal interests do not take precedence over those of this great nation."
She went on to say, "The President has the responsibility to uphold the integrity and the honor of the office, not just for himself, but for all future presidents. Degrading the office by actions or even name-calling weakens it for future presidents and it weakens our country."
But Murkowski was also highly critical of the House and the Senate, accusing the House of rushing its impeachment inquiry and critiquing her colleagues in the Senate for lacking impartiality.
"The House rushed through what should have been one of the most serious, consequential undertakings of a legislative branch, simply to meet an artificial, self-imposed deadline," she said.
"The House failed in its responsibilities and the Senate, the Senate, should be ashamed by the rank partisanship that has been on display here," she said.

Alluding to stances taken by both Democrats and Republicans, Murkowski said, "Some have been calling for the President to be impeached for years," while "others in this chamber saw little need to even consider the arguments from the House before stating their intentions to acquit."
"For all the talk of impartiality, it is clear to me that few in this chamber approached this with a genuinely open mind," she said.
Murkowski, who has a reputation as a relatively independent-minded moderate Republican, had been closely watched as a potential swing vote during the impeachment trial.
But after outlining many of her criticisms with the proceedings, the Republican senator said that ultimately she had concluded "that there would be no fair trial," and said she could not vote to convict in the trial.


Quote
"The response to the President's behavior is not to disenfranchise nearly 63 million Americans and remove him from the ballot. The House could have pursued censure and not immediately jumped to the remedy of last resort. I cannot vote to convict. The Constitution provides for impeachment, but does not demand it in all instances," she said.
Murkowski suggested that ultimately voters will decide Trump's fate.
"The President's name is on ballots that have already been cast," she said. "The voters will pronounce a verdict in nine months, and we must trust their judgment."


I take back every bad thing I've said about Senator Murkowski after the way she verballed everybody in Congress including the GOP for covering up a crime and the Democrats for doing the most extreme thing possible as a response to the investigation.

It sucks she ultimately voted on Team Cover Up but she wasn't given much of a choice in terms of realpolitik.


Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 4 2020 12:21am)


Quite the change lol.

Republican seemed to become much less principled over time.

Everybody knows the umbrella has stayed the same. Now that trump has the Republican party focused on white identity politics they might become more consistent.... Before their leaders were just afraid to say it.. Trump has demonstrated that the racist does not have to hide or be ashamed anymore. I bet this changes as the leadership gains more focus. It doesn't surprise me that the Republican voters soured after they just fell in line and had Bush walk over them, get so many of their sons killed with his war..and then how the GOP just did not even show up to work from 2008 until 2014 and from 14-16 just having a fundraiser with Benghazi :

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2014/05/08/310795987/latest-partisan-flashpoint-gop-benghazi-fundraising
https://www.politico.com/story/2014/05/republicans-benghazi-fundraising-trey-gowdy-106461
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/05/of-course-republicans-wont-stop-fundraising-off-benghazi/361920/
https://newrepublic.com/article/117713/darrell-issas-benghazi-fundraising-how-his-campaign-grew-rich

That would leave a bad taste in my mouth as well. I give money to the DNC and they have never asked me to give money to investigate negligent leadership that allowed the September 11th attacks to happen on the World Trade Center on behalf of the GOP...I would probably cut them out if they suggested that also...

So after Bush and Benghazi I can see how any conservative voter with any class would run from Republican politics. Trump doubly so if they have respect for their wives, mothers, sisters, and daughters.

I'm not sure if you know this but we have a whole voting Bloc of individuals who are conservative who are embarrassed of the Republican party and they are called Independents here. If you go by the issues they are conservatively aligned overwhelmingly, but they just aren't bovine-minded enough to embrace GOP politics.

This post was edited by Skinned on Feb 4 2020 06:06am
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Feb 4 2020 06:14am
The Liberal voting issues has appeared to move more left, but the actual issues on the left haven't changed. It is still gay marriage, equal rights for all races sexes genders etc, healthcare to as many people as possible, social safety net, better quality of life for the working poor and indigent. The right has loosely been defined as "Slowing down the progress of these things" and they have been a relative failure.

I suppose the complete and utter of the Republican party to conservative anything they are trying to conserve is what that map best demonstrates given knowledge of the particular culture...which is kind of funny. It looks like they are just less principled and have less vision...and as the Liberal or progressive side of the country have win after win they have less to react to or be defined by.

At this rate the Republicans will legislate universal single payer national healthcare so that they can say they've won something, while becoming progressives themselves.
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