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Feb 3 2020 04:52pm
Quote (fender @ 3 Feb 2020 22:25)
more proof you're totally NOT joking, just a right wing hack trying to attribute the killings of islamists to 'the left', when every serious statistic lists them as their own category. exactly what i assumed. i'm sure snipa will now admit that i was right, and we can all laugh about what a joke you are...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States


The original point of debate was how dangerous leftist and right-wing ideologies are in the present-day political context. As Goom pointed out in his brilliant post, islamists nowadays are completely aligned with the political left, in America and also in Europe/Australia/NZ.

While islamistic ideology itself is not left-wing, and most accurately captured in a category of its own, it is still the domestic leftists that downplay the threat of islamism, it is still the domestic leftists that argue and act against any measures intended to contain islamism. Leftists are doing almost everything in their power to let islamism in our Western countries go unchecked, and in this sense, they are its enablers and have to carry at least partial blame.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Feb 3 2020 04:54pm
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Feb 3 2020 05:03pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 3 Feb 2020 23:52)
The original point of debate was how dangerous leftist and right-wing ideologies are in the present-day political context. As Goom pointed out in his brilliant post, islamists nowadays are completely aligned with the political left, in America and also in Europe/Australia/NZ.

While islamistic ideology itself is not left-wing, and most accurately captured in a category of its own, it is still the domestic leftists that downplay the threat of islamism, it is still the domestic leftists that argue and act against any measures intended to contain islamism. Leftists are doing almost everything in their power to let islamism in our Western countries go unchecked, and in this sense, they are its enablers and have to carry at least partial blame.


that is nothing but cynical right wing propaganda. as i have described in a previous post, it was republican policies and administrations that largely created the terrorist threat to america, and the measures you people pretend to be 'tough on terrorism' just make that situation worse, as explained by countless foreign policy and national security experts when trump's muslim ban went into effect.

opposing counter-productive and unconstitutional policies (like trying to ban whole religions) does not imply any kind of support / responsibility / blame. that is complete bullshit. you hacks can tell yourself that in order to deflect from the fact that political violence (not only) in america is overwhelmingly right wing, but there is a reason you don't have any actual FACTS or statistics for your claim it's the left that is the real danger.
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Feb 3 2020 05:08pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 3 2020 04:52pm)
The original point of debate was how dangerous leftist and right-wing ideologies are in the present-day political context. As Goom pointed out in his brilliant post, islamists nowadays are completely aligned with the political left, in America and also in Europe/Australia/NZ.

While islamistic ideology itself is not left-wing, and most accurately captured in a category of its own, it is still the domestic leftists that downplay the threat of islamism, it is still the domestic leftists that argue and act against any measures intended to contain islamism. Leftists are doing almost everything in their power to let islamism in our Western countries go unchecked, and in this sense, they are its enablers and have to carry at least partial blame.


I think you run into a problem whenever you try to classify ideology as left or right in and of itself
since the inception of the terms, left and right were political alignments between groups with disparate ideologies who came together under a unified political movement, starting in the french revolution. And as the french revolution showed, ideologies and alignments could be in rapid flux. American politics certainly cement that ideological consistency isn't required for left vs right. How can islamist politicians and activists be universally acknowledged to be far-left, yet hold reactionary, regressive beliefs? Only by the magic of political incoherence and social justice / identity politics trumping any notion of rationality- a requirement for the left nowadays.

I think if black nationalists hadn't folded islam into the political left back in the 1970s, the post-9/11 political divide would have seen neither party warm to islam and keep it at a safe distance. Instead the influence crept back until we got the likes of Ilhan Omar, unironic attempts to ban Mohamed cartoons, Hillary wearing a hijab and that crowning moment I'll never stop talking about, Linda Sarsour heading the Women's March. It wasn't a necessary political alliance, it wasn't forced upon the democrats. Nobody said, hey, we need to be the party of embracing Sharia law, making sob stories for convicted terrorists, writing pro-Iranian propaganda, supporting mass muslim migration, etc etc. They weren't libelous accusations thrown at disavowing democrats. They chose it.
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Feb 3 2020 07:45pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 3 2020 05:52pm)
The original point of debate was how dangerous leftist and right-wing ideologies are in the present-day political context. As Goom pointed out in his brilliant post, islamists nowadays are completely aligned with the political left, in America and also in Europe/Australia/NZ.

While islamistic ideology itself is not left-wing, and most accurately captured in a category of its own, it is still the domestic leftists that downplay the threat of islamism, it is still the domestic leftists that argue and act against any measures intended to contain islamism. Leftists are doing almost everything in their power to let islamism in our Western countries go unchecked, and in this sense, they are its enablers and have to carry at least partial blame.


Omg you're hysterical. The GOP let them in on September 11th and it sucked and a Democrat killed Bin Laden.
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Feb 3 2020 08:51pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 3 2020 02:52pm)
The original point of debate was how dangerous leftist and right-wing ideologies are in the present-day political context. As Goom pointed out in his brilliant post, islamists nowadays are completely aligned with the political left, in America and also in Europe/Australia/NZ.

While islamistic ideology itself is not left-wing, and most accurately captured in a category of its own, it is still the domestic leftists that downplay the threat of islamism, it is still the domestic leftists that argue and act against any measures intended to contain islamism. Leftists are doing almost everything in their power to let islamism in our Western countries go unchecked, and in this sense, they are its enablers and have to carry at least partial blame.


as far as "stereotypes" of Islam. If the L was to be truly progressive they would stand against religions that are perceived/ or in reality so against equal rights for women, and anti rights and education. However, there other side is there are plenty of Islamic people who do NOT follow the extreme thoughts of Islam or for that matter Christians. Just seems for the millions of peaceful followers of Islam we always focus on the 1000 of nutbags. The overall discrimination on women should not be justified by the R/L. I still don't think R people for the most part REALLY are against Islam based on this idea. I think they just don't like brown people and like to put flags on their Facebook profiles.
EU immigration is 2 fold. Probably too many for their country size, and have done a horrible job of integrations.

This post was edited by theCrossbones on Feb 3 2020 08:51pm
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Feb 3 2020 10:12pm
Checking in again, does anyone know who the new president of the united states is?
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Feb 3 2020 10:19pm
Trump 20204
(not a typo)
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Feb 3 2020 10:42pm
Quote (theCrossbones @ 4 Feb 2020 03:51)
as far as "stereotypes" of Islam. If the L was to be truly progressive they would stand against religions that are perceived/ or in reality so against equal rights for women, and anti rights and education. However, there other side is there are plenty of Islamic people who do NOT follow the extreme thoughts of Islam or for that matter Christians. Just seems for the millions of peaceful followers of Islam we always focus on the 1000 of nutbags. The overall discrimination on women should not be justified by the R/L. I still don't think R people for the most part REALLY are against Islam based on this idea. I think they just don't like brown people and like to put flags on their Facebook profiles.
EU immigration is 2 fold. Probably too many for their country size, and have done a horrible job of integrations.


there are various studies conducted among European muslims showing that a majority of them considers the laws of their religion (read: shariah law) to be more important/standing above the secular laws of their host nation. for example the sciics study:
https://www.wzb.eu/de/forschung/migration-und-diversitaet/migration-integration-transnationalisierung/projekte/six-country-immigrant-integration-comparative-survey-sciics
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2013/12/13/how-widespread-is-islamic-fundamentalism-in-western-europe/?utm_term=.942c154b6313

Quote
His first finding is that majorities of Muslim immigrants believe that there is only one interpretation of the Koran possible to which every Muslim should stick (75 percent), and that religious rules are more important than the laws of the country in which they live (65 percent). Moreover, these views are as widespread among younger Muslims as among older generations.

He then looks at hostility toward out-groups. Fifty-eight percent do not want homosexual friends, 45 percent think that Jews cannot be trusted, and 54 percent believe that the West is out to destroy Muslim culture. Among Christians, 23 percent believe that Muslims are out to destroy Western culture. Koopmans says these results hold when you control for the varying socio-economic characteristics of these groups (although the analyses are not presented).


This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Feb 3 2020 10:43pm
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Feb 3 2020 10:48pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 3 2020 10:42pm)
there are various studies conducted among European muslims showing that a majority of them considers the laws of their religion (read: shariah law) to be more important/standing above the secular laws of their host nation. for example the sciics study:
https://www.wzb.eu/de/forschung/migration-und-diversitaet/migration-integration-transnationalisierung/projekte/six-country-immigrant-integration-comparative-survey-sciics
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2013/12/13/how-widespread-is-islamic-fundamentalism-in-western-europe/?utm_term=.942c154b6313


You would be scared shitless of country baptists then. Thats a widespread view held by conservative christians here in America.
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Feb 3 2020 10:55pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 3 2020 11:42pm)
there are various studies conducted among European muslims showing that a majority of them considers the laws of their religion (read: shariah law) to be more important/standing above the secular laws of their host nation. for example the sciics study:
https://www.wzb.eu/de/forschung/migration-und-diversitaet/migration-integration-transnationalisierung/projekte/six-country-immigrant-integration-comparative-survey-sciics
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2013/12/13/how-widespread-is-islamic-fundamentalism-in-western-europe/?utm_term=.942c154b6313




Finally. Some science to back up what's actually going on.
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