d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Official Political Picture Thread
Prev193949596975001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 9,011
Joined: Feb 24 2006
Gold: 1,551.00
Jul 9 2014 02:21pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jul 9 2014 02:02pm)
Didn't know he caused the great depression that started before he even became president  :blink:




Quote

Two UCLA economists say they have figured out why the Great Depression dragged on for almost 15 years, and they blame a suspect previously thought to be beyond reproach: President Franklin D. Roosevelt.

After scrutinizing Roosevelt's record for four years, Harold L. Cole and Lee E. Ohanian conclude in a new study that New Deal policies signed into law 71 years ago thwarted economic recovery for seven long years.

"Why the Great Depression lasted so long has always been a great mystery, and because we never really knew the reason, we have always worried whether we would have another 10- to 15-year economic slump," said Ohanian, vice chair of UCLA's Department of Economics. "We found that a relapse isn't likely unless lawmakers gum up a recovery with ill-conceived stimulus policies."

In an article in the August issue of the Journal of Political Economy, Ohanian and Cole blame specific anti-competition and pro-labor measures that Roosevelt promoted and signed into law June 16, 1933.

"President Roosevelt believed that excessive competition was responsible for the Depression by reducing prices and wages, and by extension reducing employment and demand for goods and services," said Cole, also a UCLA professor of economics. "So he came up with a recovery package that would be unimaginable today, allowing businesses in every industry to collude without the threat of antitrust prosecution and workers to demand salaries about 25 percent above where they ought to have been, given market forces. The economy was poised for a beautiful recovery, but that recovery was stalled by these misguided policies."

Using data collected in 1929 by the Conference Board and the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Cole and Ohanian were able to establish average wages and prices across a range of industries just prior to the Depression. By adjusting for annual increases in productivity, they were able to use the 1929 benchmark to figure out what prices and wages would have been during every year of the Depression had Roosevelt's policies not gone into effect. They then compared those figures with actual prices and wages as reflected in the Conference Board data.

In the three years following the implementation of Roosevelt's policies, wages in 11 key industries averaged 25 percent higher than they otherwise would have done, the economists calculate. But unemployment was also 25 percent higher than it should have been, given gains in productivity.

Meanwhile, prices across 19 industries averaged 23 percent above where they should have been, given the state of the economy. With goods and services that much harder for consumers to afford, demand stalled and the gross national product floundered at 27 percent below where it otherwise might have been.

"High wages and high prices in an economic slump run contrary to everything we know about market forces in economic downturns," Ohanian said. "As we've seen in the past several years, salaries and prices fall when unemployment is high. By artificially inflating both, the New Deal policies short-circuited the market's self-correcting forces."

The policies were contained in the National Industrial Recovery Act (NIRA), which exempted industries from antitrust prosecution if they agreed to enter into collective bargaining agreements that significantly raised wages. Because protection from antitrust prosecution all but ensured higher prices for goods and services, a wide range of industries took the bait, Cole and Ohanian found. By 1934 more than 500 industries, which accounted for nearly 80 percent of private, non-agricultural employment, had entered into the collective bargaining agreements called for under NIRA.

Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60 percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943.

Roosevelt's role in lifting the nation out of the Great Depression has been so revered that Time magazine readers cited it in 1999 when naming him the 20th century's second-most influential figure.

"This is exciting and valuable research," said Robert E. Lucas Jr., the 1995 Nobel Laureate in economics, and the John Dewey Distinguished Service Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago. "The prevention and cure of depressions is a central mission of macroeconomics, and if we can't understand what happened in the 1930s, how can we be sure it won't happen again?"

NIRA's role in prolonging the Depression has not been more closely scrutinized because the Supreme Court declared the act unconstitutional within two years of its passage.

"Historians have assumed that the policies didn't have an impact because they were too short-lived, but the proof is in the pudding," Ohanian said. "We show that they really did artificially inflate wages and prices."

Even after being deemed unconstitutional, Roosevelt's anti-competition policies persisted — albeit under a different guise, the scholars found. Ohanian and Cole painstakingly documented the extent to which the Roosevelt administration looked the other way as industries once protected by NIRA continued to engage in price-fixing practices for four more years.

The number of antitrust cases brought by the Department of Justice fell from an average of 12.5 cases per year during the 1920s to an average of 6.5 cases per year from 1935 to 1938, the scholars found. Collusion had become so widespread that one Department of Interior official complained of receiving identical bids from a protected industry (steel) on 257 different occasions between mid-1935 and mid-1936. The bids were not only identical but also 50 percent higher than foreign steel prices. Without competition, wholesale prices remained inflated, averaging 14 percent higher than they would have been without the troublesome practices, the UCLA economists calculate.

NIRA's labor provisions, meanwhile, were strengthened in the National Relations Act, signed into law in 1935. As union membership doubled, so did labor's bargaining power, rising from 14 million strike days in 1936 to about 28 million in 1937. By 1939 wages in protected industries remained 24 percent to 33 percent above where they should have been, based on 1929 figures, Cole and Ohanian calculate. Unemployment persisted. By 1939 the U.S. unemployment rate was 17.2 percent, down somewhat from its 1933 peak of 24.9 percent but still remarkably high. By comparison, in May 2003, the unemployment rate of 6.1 percent was the highest in nine years.

Recovery came only after the Department of Justice dramatically stepped up enforcement of antitrust cases nearly four-fold and organized labor suffered a string of setbacks, the economists found.

"The fact that the Depression dragged on for years convinced generations of economists and policy-makers that capitalism could not be trusted to recover from depressions and that significant government intervention was required to achieve good outcomes," Cole said. "Ironically, our work shows that the recovery would have been very rapid had the government not intervened."

-UCLA-                                                     
LSMS368                                                       


This post was edited by TradeBot on Jul 9 2014 02:28pm
Member
Posts: 53,552
Joined: Mar 6 2008
Gold: 1,908.33
Jul 9 2014 02:38pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jul 9 2014 04:02pm)
Didn't know he caused the great depression that started before he even became president  :blink:


We might even not be calling it "The Great Depression"today if not for FDR's policies which extended it an estimated 7 years.
The federal reserve system that he helped entrench was also extremely important among the causes of what made the great depression so 'great'. Even Bernanke admits it(even if he wants to pretend the FRS is omniscient afterwards)

Quote (HelicopterBen)
I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You’re right, we did it. We’re very sorry.



But yes your post was valid criticism. Giving him sole responsibility for causing the great depression is stretching it.
Member
Posts: 50,835
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 5,846.00
Jul 9 2014 02:43pm
Quote (TradeBot @ Jul 9 2014 02:21pm)
http://alibertarianfuture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/scumbag-FDR-great-depression-copy.png


I have to admit, I hadn't had my fill of brainless partisan propaganda from that israel thread, this filled the quota and then some
Member
Posts: 64,763
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 0.00
Jul 9 2014 03:01pm
Quote (TradeBot @ Jul 9 2014 02:21pm)
http://alibertarianfuture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/scumbag-FDR-great-depression-copy.png


I'm confused, because it seems the article is saying the administration prolonged the problem by getting out of the way and allowing companies to collude without persecution, and that even though it only lasted two years one act is being blamed for a decade of depression. Meenwhile a totally natural thing happened, Union membership increased as times got tougher and the government made it illegal to fire employees for forming or joining a union, as it should be. I don't see it :X
Member
Posts: 50,835
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 5,846.00
Jul 9 2014 03:12pm
Step 1: Have an agenda
Step 2: Rewrite history to match your agenda

Hello china/north korea/israel/USSR/crackpot fringe republicans

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jul 9 2014 03:12pm
Member
Posts: 53,552
Joined: Mar 6 2008
Gold: 1,908.33
Jul 9 2014 03:29pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Jul 9 2014 05:12pm)
Step 1: Have an agenda
Step 2: Rewrite history to match your agenda

Hello china/north korea/israel/USSR/crackpot fringe republicans


So you deny FDR's administration had bad policies that lengthened the great depression and you buy into the "he got us out of the great depression" sheepery?
Anything that goes against your public school notion of history is crackpot fringe?
Really critical thinking you're doing there.

Why do you think the recovery took so long after his aggressive policies were put in place?
Why do you think price fixing helps the economy?
Why do you think paying people to grow less when people are starving is a good idea?
Why do you think the government coming in and propping up higher wages and enforcing strict regulations when unemployment is massive and the economy is in the tank is a good idea?

This post was edited by cambovenzi on Jul 9 2014 03:32pm
Member
Posts: 33,925
Joined: Oct 9 2008
Gold: 2,528.52
Jul 9 2014 04:42pm
Crud, wrong thread

This post was edited by EndlessSky on Jul 9 2014 04:45pm
Member
Posts: 52,225
Joined: Jan 3 2009
Gold: 8,902.00
Jul 9 2014 04:45pm
Member
Posts: 57,901
Joined: Dec 3 2008
Gold: 286.00
Jul 9 2014 06:08pm




Member
Posts: 53,552
Joined: Mar 6 2008
Gold: 1,908.33
Jul 9 2014 06:12pm
very intellectually honest. much wow.
nvm that Mises was a jew who fled the nazis. austrian economics is nazism :rolleyes: Complete opposition to fascism is fascism :rolleyes:


I don't think that was quite offensive or wrong enough.
Maybe you can post pictures of jews in ovens and call them nazis next time.

This post was edited by cambovenzi on Jul 9 2014 06:34pm
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev193949596975001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll