Quote (Goomshill @ 3 Feb 2020 22:15)

Because left and right in US politics are political alignments, not ideologies. There is no ideological consistency across the left or right, and indeed there are rather contradictory political alliances between conflicting ideologies, like having Linda Sarsour head the Women's March or having isolationist libertarians and warmongering neocons in the same republican cabinet. As it stands, Islam in America is virtually 100% politically aligned with the left, the democrats, the progressives and other left-wing groups. Between black nationalist islam like Farrakhan and arab / north african migrants, muslims are as hardcore left-wing aligned as they could possibly be. There's a reason that Ilhan Omar makes such impassioned apologetic speeches defending islamic terrorists while far-right groups want to wage another crusade. There's a reason liberals are open to banning depictions of the prophet mohamed by cartoonists but the right wing harps on about free speech.

You may not like it, you may not understand it, but Islamists are firmly in the left wing camp, just like neo-Nazis are in the right wing.
When mainstream republicans denounce their radicals, it doesn't mean that neo-Nazis aren't right wing anymore. They're clearly aligned with the right-wing of US politics. Same that even if/when democrats denounce islamic terrorism, they're still aligned. The good democrats make clear that they don't want to be associated with the fundamentalist islamists, but those democrats seem to get fewer and farther between. Very few will openly condemn the extremists anymore, for fear of being labeled islamophobic. Which is also how we wound up with Linda Sarsour heading the Women's March.



the kill count from antifa is low but still significant, depends on how you define the grey cases where ideology is uncertain or no explicit connections but clearly identical ideology
the kill count from black supremacists is pretty high, especially looking back decades
the kill count from islamists dwarfs everything else.

Quote (fender @ Feb 3 2020 03:25pm)

more proof you're totally NOT joking, just a right wing hack trying to attribute the killings of islamists to 'the left', when every serious statistic lists them as their own category. exactly what i assumed. i'm sure snipa will now admit that i was right, and we can all laugh about what a joke you are...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

Quote (thesnipa @ Feb 3 2020 02:55pm)

antifa have an almost non existent body count, that was clue one. lumping islamists in with "the left" was clue two. he's being hyperbolic, not literal. even black supremacists have a very low kill count, clue three.

and i was being only a bit more literal with my examples as goom was with his.

the point remains, islamists are leftist in the american context in a binary choice. which is really all that is needed for a joke to be born.

but im sure that Goom will take the opportunity to write up a 3 page response to you passionately arguing for something that was honestly just a joke to begin with.

Quote (fender @ Feb 3 2020 01:50pm)

so how many people have they killed, as opposed to people motivated by right wing motives?

https://ctc.usma.edu/el-paso-terrorist-attack-chain-reaction-global-right-wing-terror/
https://www.businessinsider.com/extremist-killings-links-right-wing-extremism-report-2019-1?r=DE&IR=T

ooops!

Quote (Goomshill @ Feb 3 2020 01:52pm)

Antifa, black supremacists and islamists combined? I can't count that high.

Quote (Goomshill @ Feb 3 2020 04:24pm)

Well you wouldn't be the first to notice the similarities between the tea party era republicans and sjw era democrats, but I do think the democrats long, long since passed the high water mark of the republicans.

Quote (fender @ Feb 3 2020 04:25pm)

more proof you're totally NOT joking, just a right wing hack trying to attribute the killings of islamists to 'the left', when every serious statistic lists them as their own category. exactly what i assumed. i'm sure snipa will now admit that i was right, and we can all laugh about what a joke you are...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

Quote (Skinned @ Feb 3 2020 03:48pm)

Is just interesting seeing a bunch of dude's that talked all that shit about identity politics doubling down and embracing identity politics so thoroughly.
A Testament of how successful identity politics is in democracy.
The tea party are the same dues are supporting trump right now. All evangelicals bray around them and talk in tongues for him. Its wild. They think he is going to save the white race.

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He is not equating Islamic killings to the left. Hes not stupid or calling us stupid.

Men fighting a holy war to establish natural law is a very conservative ideology. When the actual Islamic revolutions happened they were mainly competing against the marxism. The Islamist purged the left from their countries a long time ago.

/e he trolling lol

Quote (thesnipa @ 3 Feb 2020 22:34)

AND for reference:






even put in the "i cant count that high". im not sure how many signals a 2 sentence post can even have that it's not literal lol.

ok enough buzzkilling for one day. goodbye pard

Quote (Goomshill @ 3 Feb 2020 22:46)

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html

no really, I have no inclination to count that high
I could maybe sum up the number of antifa deaths but it takes some extrapolation and secondary sources, but I CBA to count islamists, white supremacists, black nationalists, etc.

Quote (fender @ Feb 3 2020 04:14pm)

notice how 'islamist' is its own category? just like 'right' and 'left'...

Quote (Goomshill @ Feb 3 2020 01:08pm)

How about we live in 2020 and deal with problems that currently exist in our culture instead of pretending its still the 1890s or 1940s? The difference is that Antifa is out there committing terrorism in the present day and turning out large mobs, whereas the KKK are a defunct organization that can't fill up a high school gymnasium and half the people who show up are undercover feds.

We've got actually active groups of antifa, black supremacists and islamists on the left committing terrorist attacks, and white supremacists and neo-nazis on the right committing terrorist attacks.
One political party endorses and associates openly with their aligned extremist groups, the other rejects and disavows them.

Quote (Goomshill @ 3 Feb 2020 23:23)

and notice how "nationalist" and "unabomber" and "beltway sniper" and "religious" are their own categories?
that's just someone trying to create coherent, readable statistics, not spelling out political alignments with any coherence. Its also missing a ton of attacks and mislabels a few. Its just a resource, one reasonably decent list. Plane crash with unknown motive labeled as islamist, which it may have been, may have not. Antifa gunman kills 9 people and we don't know if it was politically motivated for sure or not? Shows up as "CRI?".

Besides, that list goes so far back you can't possibly align decades or centuries old terrorist incidents into contemporary left/right partisan affiliations. I mean, I feel reasonably confident in saying Leon Czolgosz would be considered "Antifa" in the present day, but what was considered left then, bears little resemblance to what is considered left now. Making that classification not carry much meaning.

Quote (Thor123422 @ 3 Feb 2020 23:26)

lol dude, Trump went on Alex Jones' show. If you think nobody in the GOP courts the anti-jewish crazies on their side of the aisle you're hopelessly ignorant.

Also, there's a huge ideological difference between Antifa and the KKK. The KKK is a unified group with leadership dedicated to removing specific races from America. Antifa is a loosely associated group dedicated to removing an ideology that we all agree is bad. Antifa has some bad apples, but they aren't anywhere near the same league of badness either in realized damages or ideological damage that the antisemitic groups you are referencing have achieved.

I get it, there's really no groups on the left that you can point at and say "look, we all agree there's nothing redeemable there" like there are on the right so you have to invent one.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Feb 3 2020 04:26pm)

lol dude, Trump went on Alex Jones' show. If you think nobody in the GOP courts the anti-jewish crazies on their side of the aisle you're hopelessly ignorant.

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Also, there's a huge ideological difference between Antifa and the KKK. The KKK is a unified group with leadership dedicated to removing specific races from America. Antifa is a loosely associated group dedicated to removing an ideology that we all agree is bad. Antifa has some bad apples, but they aren't anywhere near the same league of badness either in realized damages or ideological damage that the antisemitic groups you are referencing have achieved.

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I get it, there's really no groups on the left that you can point at and say "look, we all agree there's nothing redeemable there" like there are on the right so you have to invent one.