Official Atheist / Agnostic Thread - Topic

Gastly

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#921

Jul 17 2015 03:55pm

Quote (Diablokgb @ Jul 17 2015 11:35pm)

C. Crusades.

uhh... not in any way comparable to Nazism? there's hundreds and thousands of similar military conflicts out there.
now the Taiping rebellion instead... :lol:

Quote (Voyaging @ Jul 18 2015 12:46am)

the Muslim invasions were the cause of the Crusades in the first place.

if it's the special case of Alexios I requesting aid (?) against the Turks in Anatolia that you're referring to then i have to wonder why the crusaders ended up that far south.
apart from that, each of the crusades differed from each other - and the crusaders' motives certainly weren't unified either.

unless you're speaking of a hypothetical world in which the area hadn't been under various Muslim states for the past few hundred years by the time of the first crusade.

there's the Baltic and the Albigensian crusades as well. they were kind of bad if one happened to be a civilian in the area. nasty stuff in the chronicles! (tho this is true for the Middle Eastern ones as well)

This post was edited by Gastly on Jul 17 2015 03:56pm

thesnipa

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#922

Jul 17 2015 03:57pm

Quote (Diablokgb @ Jul 17 2015 03:53pm)

Actually they were started by the pope to acquire access to places that were sacred to them.

They were for economic and territorial purposes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista

if you were unaware of that term it is very integral in the initial motivations of the crusades. but of course you are partially right, it was also about reclaiming access to holy lands.

Diablokgb

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#923

Jul 17 2015 03:58pm

Quote (Gastly @ Jul 17 2015 09:55pm)

uhh... not in any way comparable to Nazism? there's hundreds and thousands of similar military conflicts out there.
now the Taiping rebellion instead... :lol:

if it's the special case of Alexios I requesting aid (?) against the Turks in Anatolia that you're referring to then i have to wonder why the crusaders ended up that far south.
apart from that, each of the crusades differed from each other - and the crusaders' motives certainly weren't unified either.

unless you're speaking of a hypothetical world in which the area hadn't been under various Muslim states for the past few hundred years by the time of the first crusade.

there's the Baltic and the Albigensian crusades as well. they were kind of bad if one happened to be a civilian in the area. nasty stuff in the chronicles! (tho this is true for the Middle Eastern ones as well)

I measure it about the lives they took. Estimated at 6-8 million.

Holocaust was I believe 5-6. (Not sure on this)

And don't forget that's just the crusades. They killed other people in different circumstances.

This post was edited by Diablokgb on Jul 17 2015 04:05pm

thesnipa

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#924

Jul 17 2015 04:01pm

Quote (Diablokgb @ Jul 17 2015 03:58pm)

I measure it about the lives they took. Estimated at 6-8 million.

Holocaust was I bleive 5-6. (Not sure on this)

And don't forget that's just the crusades. They killed other people in different circumstances.

total body count may not be the best way. crusades was over hundreds of years. nazis was millions of kilings over a few decades.

Diablokgb

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#925

Jul 17 2015 04:02pm

Quote (thesnipa @ Jul 17 2015 10:01pm)

total body count may not be the best way. crusades was over hundreds of years. nazis was millions of kilings over a few decades.

I didn't relaize the holocaust was decades long. Is it true?

I think the crusades were like 140 years.

Also Christians are still killing...

This post was edited by Diablokgb on Jul 17 2015 04:04pm

Gastly

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#926

Jul 17 2015 04:04pm

Quote (Diablokgb @ Jul 18 2015 12:58am)

Estimated at 6-8 million.

that's rubbish though.

Quote (Diablokgb @ Jul 18 2015 12:58am)

Holocaust was I bleive 5-6. (Not sure on this)

that's just the Jews, add another 6 million for Roma, communists, social democrats, Poles and whatnot.
then add the wars. their goal was to kill off the Eastern Slavs, and it really shows.

This post was edited by Gastly on Jul 17 2015 04:04pm

thesnipa

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#927

Jul 17 2015 04:04pm

Quote (Diablokgb @ Jul 17 2015 04:02pm)

I didn't relaize the holocaust was decades long. Is it true?

I think the crusades were like 140 years.

well im considering the time that hitler took power until he was disposed. the actual "final solution" portion of the holocaust was shorter. either way it only strengthens my point

Unanswered

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#928

Jul 17 2015 04:05pm

Quote (Voyaging @ Jul 17 2015 04:46pm)

People always love to bring up the Crusades but never mention the Muslim invasions that were the cause of the Crusades in the first place.

What source is that? The Quran and Bible are wildly different sacred texts.

He could be referring that the 3 religions stem from Abraham. Of course 2 of the 3 believe in their prophets is the messiah and Judaism has not seen their messiah.

Diablokgb

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#929

Jul 17 2015 04:06pm

Quote (Gastly @ Jul 17 2015 10:04pm)

that's rubbish though.

that's just the Jews, add another 6 million for Roma, communists, social democrats, Poles and whatnot.
then add the wars. their goal was to kill off the Eastern Slavs, and it really shows.

How is that number rubbish. That's the best guess the source can give because it was such long time ago that they really don't know the exact number.

Gastly

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#930

Jul 17 2015 04:11pm

Quote (Diablokgb @ Jul 18 2015 01:06am)

the source

yes?

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