LOL

capitalist fanaticism is outdated dogma, really have no idea how you can reconcile your views with history or the present.

soccialism fanaticism is outdated dogma, really have no idea how you can reconcile your views with history or the present.

see how you failed to make any type of argument?



Enlighten us perhaps, o great sage?..

we weren't arguing, it was a casual exchange which you're ignoring the pretense to. ancaps justify classism, exploitation and slavery by saying it's a voluntary contract and ignoring the fact everyone has to work to survive, so any choice under voluntaryism is illusory. the state protecting us from capitalists is its only valuable function. you can see this in the history of labor & working conditions in britain, america, australia. you can see this in china right now.

private ownership of the means of production is not justifiable as a mere given fact because such property is not a "natural right" in any sense, but a function of social and power relations.

I don't see how those assertions are helpful to the discussion though, or how they support your notion that private ownership of means of production is 'ridiculous'... I mean, at the root of it all, individuality is a function of social and power relations. Not trying to be obtuse here, but I fail to see what you're getting at here.

it is a more or less direct response to Cambovenzi's post. to the part regarding possessions, which seem to be seen as a "given right" that's to be taken at face value.
if "Forced equality of possessions" is oppression then many forms of possession are oppression.

This post was edited by Gastly on Aug 3 2015 02:33pm

e: double post, whoopsie

This post was edited by Gastly on Aug 3 2015 02:33pm

private ownership over the means of production is illegitimate in a classless society as a proprietor pays for the means of production by profiting from inequality (theft).

"Finally, property is not self-existent. An extraneous cause — either force or fraud — is necessary to its life and action. In other words, property is not equal to property: it is a negation — a delusion — NOTHING."
proudhon

Somebody hasn't played Bioshock....