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Jul 10 2022 01:22pm
FUCK JOE BIDEN
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Jul 10 2022 02:12pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 9 2022 11:58pm)
I don't disagree with the notion that Trump would have defeated most other 2020 candidates and that something about Biden put him over the top. I just think these factors were more circumstancial than rooted in Biden's persona. Is it really Biden who should get credit for the coalition that rallied behind him in 2020? Imho, a significant chunk of this coalition was an anti-Trump coalition, rather than a pro-Biden coalition.

We also shouldn't forget that the pandemic covered a lot of Biden's weaknesses, conducting a front porch basement campaign played right into his hands, as did Trump's trouble holding his usual large rallies. And last but not least, let's not forget how much he was helped by the murder of George Floyd and the subsequent BLM protests, This helped drive up black turnout, which was crucial for Biden's electoral math, but looked potentially anemic before Floyd/BLM.

In the same vein, the Floyd murder and BLM protests caused upscale suburbs and corporate America to fully turn on Trump once and for all. It goes without saying that Biden/Democrats can't count on race riots helping them politically every four years going forward. Aaaaand of course the country's cultural, academic, bureaucratic, intellectual and economic elites were putting all of their institutional power in the balance to undermine Trump's reelection, which caused them to rally behind Biden to an unprecedented degree.

All of these factors contributed to the 2020 result, but they are external/circumstancial factors and not reflective of an intrinsic strength of Biden. To me, Biden isn't uniquely strong, he just happened to be the right man in the right moment in 2020. I'm not sure at all if he can replicate his 2020 coalition in 2024.



Oh come on, that's revisionist history. Fact of the matter is that the Democratic elites had largely avoided taking sides in the primary until after Nevada. Biden finished 4th in Iowa, 5th in NH and was crushed 40% to 18% by Bernie in Nevada. Bernie had just won 2.5 out of the first 3 contests and had all the momentum, then sent out his infamous "they can't stop us"-tweet.

Then, things suddenly turned around 180° within a single week. Clyburn endorses Biden, followed by Biden winning SC by the expected margin, neither over- nor underperforming expectations. Obama, still the pretty much undisputed leader of the party, works behind the scenes to close the ranks behind Biden. Within two days, Buttigieg and Klobuchar end their campaign and come on stage at a Biden rally to endorse him. With all the non-progressive factions of the party united behind Biden, he easily crushes on Super Tuesday against Bernie and Warren who split the progressive line.

Chances are that Biden would have won in the end, even without party elites orchestrating behind the scenes on his behalf, but it's imho far from a guarantee - and it would have been a long, drawn-out contest and seen Biden limp into the general election.


The way I see it, party elites, call them "20 people in a smoke filled room" if you want, settled on Biden and strongly signalled to undecided primary voters that he is the candidate the party should rally around to stave off the Bernie's insurgency and maximize their chances in the general against Trump. And there were a ton of undecided voters, looking for any clues from party elites. Keeping this in mind and looking at how badly Biden had done in the three contests before the party elites had closed the ranks around him, and how much better he performed after they did, I would say that it was indeed party elites that chose him, a majority of the party base just went along with it.


Absolutely! Only HE could get enough voters of color. Only HE could get enough white working class voters. Only HE could get enough suburban voters. Only HE could get enough Republican voters that would otherwise have voted for Trump. I really don't think that the above coalition can be replicated by many other people and they were absolutely necessary to defeat Trump. His best characteristic is his empathy and that played REALLY well with the American people when we suffered through the pandemic. I think you're really underestimating how he was the right man at the right time. I agree that the coalition will be difficult to replicate but if he can't do it, no one can.

As for the Democrat primaries, I think this is a useful article: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/voters-second-choice-candidates-show-a-race-that-is-still-fluid/
Obviously there was probably SOME fluidity to the above but I think it shows that it's not as simple as progressive vs. establishment. It shouldn't surprise you that many voters would move to Warren from Pete and Amy.

A convenient fact that you left out was that Michael Bloomberg didn't drop out. If you look at the Super Tuesday results, you can see that Warren and Bloomberg basically did the same from a popular vote perspective (delegate math is another story due to thresholding). Of the people who were TRULY undecided, I find it hard to believe that these people would have cast their vote for Warren, Bloomberg, Amy, or Pete. These type of people are low-ish information voters (they are still primary voters so they have more info than strictly GE voters) and likely would voted for Bernie or Biden based on name recognition and vapid analysis (I like Bernie but he might not win).

I 100% agree that Clyburn helped Biden win South Carolina. There's no doubt about that and Biden was forced to promise a black woman on SCOTUS for that endorsement. I think the endorsement was inevitable though because Bernie Sanders ran away from black people so fast that he lived with his mom until he was 40 in the whitest state in the union.
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Jul 10 2022 02:34pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 10 2022 12:58am)
I don't disagree with the notion that Trump would have defeated most other 2020 candidates and that something about Biden put him over the top. I just think these factors were more circumstancial than rooted in Biden's persona. Is it really Biden who should get credit for the coalition that rallied behind him in 2020? Imho, a significant chunk of this coalition was an anti-Trump coalition, rather than a pro-Biden coalition.

We also shouldn't forget that the pandemic covered a lot of Biden's weaknesses, conducting a front porch basement campaign played right into his hands, as did Trump's trouble holding his usual large rallies. And last but not least, let's not forget how much he was helped by the murder of George Floyd and the subsequent BLM protests, This helped drive up black turnout, which was crucial for Biden's electoral math, but looked potentially anemic before Floyd/BLM.

In the same vein, the Floyd murder and BLM protests caused upscale suburbs and corporate America to fully turn on Trump once and for all. It goes without saying that Biden/Democrats can't count on race riots helping them politically every four years going forward. Aaaaand of course the country's cultural, academic, bureaucratic, intellectual and economic elites were putting all of their institutional power in the balance to undermine Trump's reelection, which caused them to rally behind Biden to an unprecedented degree.

All of these factors contributed to the 2020 result, but they are external/circumstancial factors and not reflective of an intrinsic strength of Biden. To me, Biden isn't uniquely strong, he just happened to be the right man in the right moment in 2020. I'm not sure at all if he can replicate his 2020 coalition in 2024.




with the number of mail in ballots sent out, it had to be the most secure election in the history of elections. No doubt.

forgot to mention this key piece under "covid circumstance"


this way citizens and illegals who would of otherwise not voted could have their ballots filled out for them and added into the counts sometime after midnight in key states.

this is the most secure election in the history of this country - Joe biden

lol...




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Jul 10 2022 02:41pm
Quote (GuyLadouche @ Jul 10 2022 01:34pm)
with the number of mail in ballots sent out, it had to be the most secure election in the history of elections. No doubt.

forgot to mention this key piece under "covid circumstance"


this way citizens and illegals who would of otherwise not voted could have their ballots filled out for them and added into the counts sometime after midnight in key states.

this is the most secure election in the history of this country - Joe biden

lol...


Wow, that's an exploit no one could have thought of. I really wish state governments had thought of that and implemented simple features such as matching ballot numbers to names of registered voters. Maybe they could have required signature matching on ballots too so that we couldn't steal a dead person's ballot.
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Jul 10 2022 02:48pm
Quote (thundercock @ Jul 10 2022 02:41pm)
Wow, that's an exploit no one could have thought of. I really wish state governments had thought of that and implemented simple features such as matching ballot numbers to names of registered voters. Maybe they could have required signature matching on ballots too so that we couldn't steal a dead person's ballot.



harvested.


probably like 500 million mail in ballots sent out for 300 million americans. im sure it was secure, never any problems with the counts. We are stopping the count in key stats around midnight (trump is leading here btw) and when we return in the morning Biden will magically be winning in all these states.

We just happen to find the 100 of boxes of ballots under the table, somehow they were like 99.9% all for joe biden lol
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Jul 10 2022 02:50pm
When will biden family be exposed for china business ties.
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Jul 10 2022 02:55pm
Quote (thundercock @ 10 Jul 2022 16:12)
Absolutely! Only HE could get enough voters of color. Only HE could get enough white working class voters. Only HE could get enough suburban voters. Only HE could get enough Republican voters that would otherwise have voted for Trump. I really don't think that the above coalition can be replicated by many other people and they were absolutely necessary to defeat Trump. His best characteristic is his empathy and that played REALLY well with the American people when we suffered through the pandemic. I think you're really underestimating how he was the right man at the right time. I agree that the coalition will be difficult to replicate but if he can't do it, no one can.

As for the Democrat primaries, I think this is a useful article: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/voters-second-choice-candidates-show-a-race-that-is-still-fluid/
Obviously there was probably SOME fluidity to the above but I think it shows that it's not as simple as progressive vs. establishment. It shouldn't surprise you that many voters would move to Warren from Pete and Amy.

A convenient fact that you left out was that Michael Bloomberg didn't drop out. If you look at the Super Tuesday results, you can see that Warren and Bloomberg basically did the same from a popular vote perspective (delegate math is another story due to thresholding). Of the people who were TRULY undecided, I find it hard to believe that these people would have cast their vote for Warren, Bloomberg, Amy, or Pete. These type of people are low-ish information voters (they are still primary voters so they have more info than strictly GE voters) and likely would voted for Bernie or Biden based on name recognition and vapid analysis (I like Bernie but he might not win).

I 100% agree that Clyburn helped Biden win South Carolina. There's no doubt about that and Biden was forced to promise a black woman on SCOTUS for that endorsement. I think the endorsement was inevitable though because Bernie Sanders ran away from black people so fast that he lived with his mom until he was 40 in the whitest state in the union.

all that empathy and he managed to have more people die from covid during his presidency in the same amount of time, with the benefit of 3 vaccines that he and kamala consistently cast doubt on for months leading up to the election:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-trump-coronavirus-vaccine/2020/09/16/2ffbea6a-f831-11ea-a275-1a2c2d36e1f1_story.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/us/politics/biden-trump-coronavirus-vaccine.html
https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/09/05/kamala-harris-trump-coronavirus-vaccine-409320

it was an anti/never-Trump vote in 2020, nothing else. Trump lost the election on his own doing, while biden was hidden sheltered in his basement for good reason. biden was losing bad in the primary until the field dropped out for no reason. this was a guy who ran twice prior and got zero delegates, having to quit once in embarrassment for massive plagiarism and lying about it.

that said, there 81+ million 100% loyal and accountable harris/biden voters and supporters who are to blame for the current situation in America. they ALL 100% support each and EVERY decision and failure of the current administration. zero deviation or independent thinking for this cohort.

This post was edited by excellence on Jul 10 2022 02:57pm
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Jul 10 2022 03:01pm
Quote (GuyLadouche @ 10 Jul 2022 22:34)
with the number of mail in ballots sent out, it had to be the most secure election in the history of elections. No doubt.

forgot to mention this key piece under "covid circumstance"


this way citizens and illegals who would of otherwise not voted could have their ballots filled out for them and added into the counts sometime after midnight in key states.

this is the most secure election in the history of this country - Joe biden

lol...

Countless lawsuits by Republicans in which they claimed some sort of voter fraud or irregularities ended up before Trump-appointed judges. They got struck down without exception.
There are only two possible explanations for this:

1. Trump's claims of voter fraud are indeed bogus and he lost fair and square.
2. There really was a huge conspiracy against him, and Trump was inept enough to appoint countless federal judges who were secretly in on the con and cooperated with the cabal that was trying to steal the election.

In both cases, Trump shouldn't be president anymore.


---------------------


Quote (thundercock @ 10 Jul 2022 22:12)
Absolutely! Only HE could get enough voters of color. Only HE could get enough white working class voters. Only HE could get enough suburban voters. Only HE could get enough Republican voters that would otherwise have voted for Trump. I really don't think that the above coalition can be replicated by many other people and they were absolutely necessary to defeat Trump. His best characteristic is his empathy and that played REALLY well with the American people when we suffered through the pandemic. I think you're really underestimating how he was the right man at the right time. I agree that the coalition will be difficult to replicate but if he can't do it, no one can.

Most of the suburban Romney->Trump->Biden voters were driven by dislike of Trump more so than by being thrilled of Biden. I think this type of voter would have gone with Buttigieg, Booker or Warren as well.

You are correct though that no other Dem candidate would have been able to keep together all groups of the "Biden coalition". Buttigieg and Warren would have been strong in upscale suburbs too, but Buttigieg would have bled support with black and latino men, Warren would have bled with the white working-class. Bernie would have suffered in the upscale suburbs.

But going back to my argument, I still think that Biden's strength in 2020 was based on people's memories and perception of Biden more so than by who he really is. 'Competence', 'normalcy', 'the adults in the room being in charge again' - all those pitches were a chimera and won't work anymore in 2024 because the way his presidency went down has debunked them.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 10 2022 03:03pm
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Jul 10 2022 03:15pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 10 Jul 2022 17:01)
Countless lawsuits by Republicans in which they claimed some sort of voter fraud or irregularities ended up before Trump-appointed judges. They got struck down without exception.
There are only two possible explanations for this:

1. Trump's claims of voter fraud are indeed bogus and he lost fair and square.
2. There really was a huge conspiracy against him, and Trump was inept enough to appoint countless federal judges who were secretly in on the con and cooperated with the cabal that was trying to steal the election.

In both cases, Trump shouldn't be president anymore.


---------------------



Most of the suburban Romney->Trump->Biden voters were driven by dislike of Trump more so than by being thrilled of Biden. I think this type of voter would have gone with Buttigieg, Booker or Warren as well.

You are correct though that no other Dem candidate would have been able to keep together all groups of the "Biden coalition". Buttigieg and Warren would have been strong in upscale suburbs too, but Buttigieg would have bled support with black and latino men, Warren would have bled with the white working-class. Bernie would have suffered in the upscale suburbs.

But going back to my argument, I still think that Biden's strength in 2020 was based on people's memories and perception of Biden more so than by who he really is. 'Competence', 'normalcy', 'the adults in the room being in charge again' - all those pitches were a chimera and won't work anymore in 2024 because the way his presidency went down has debunked them.

he will get at least 81M voters in 2024. Each and EVERY single one of his voters and supporters are 100% loyal and are 100% happy with the state of the republic. They all 100% endorse all policy decisions foreign and domestic since he started in 1972. Including supporting segregation and Robert kkk Byrd (D-WV)

This post was edited by excellence on Jul 10 2022 03:16pm
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Jul 10 2022 03:17pm


edit - He sounds more coherent in this 2010 video

Vice President Joe Biden Eulogizes Former Member of the KKK, Robert Byrd on July 2, 2010.


This post was edited by Mondain on Jul 10 2022 03:18pm
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