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Jul 7 2022 11:52pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 8 2022 12:39am)
Democrats actually have a decent chance of holding the Senate this fall. They will get wiped out in the Senate in 2024, when the "lucky class of senators" (who ran in three consecutive strong years for Democrats, 2006, 2012 and 2018) comes up for reelection in a presidential year. Manchin, Tester and the like will be toast.

They might also bank a lot on Trump being the GOP nominee again in 2024, and public opinion on him still being extremely polarized and hardened, with a slight but persistent majority loathing him. So there probably is a path to nuking the filibuster for abortion and getting away with it. It's of course still a foolish approach since the risk would be huge, as you pointed out, but also since allowing Republican hardliners to overreach on the issue is the far smarter long-term strategy for Democrats.

So yes, I agree with you that it's a stupid idea for Democrats to nuke the filibuster this summer, but there is at least some logic to it.


Even if Republicans took the senate this year they wouldn't take a supermajority, and Biden would remain president and hold the veto, so yeah its a 2024 issue. And the deck stacked against them in 2024 to boot.
This is not 'getting away with it' The best case scenario is that they get to make abortions legal at the federal level for a matter of months, maybe 1.5 years tops, before its immediately reversed by republicans. And then we'd be plunging the nation into a ridiculous back and forth on policy based on each election cycle, moreso than it already is right now. The filibuster has been mitigating that.

History has shown that every time the democrats overreach, the Republicans are the ones who win long term. Mitch McConnell said that to Harry Reid point blank when he went nuclear on the judiciary, and look how that turned out
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Jul 8 2022 01:11am
Quote (Goomshill @ 8 Jul 2022 07:52)
Even if Republicans took the senate this year they wouldn't take a supermajority, and Biden would remain president and hold the veto, so yeah its a 2024 issue. And the deck stacked against them in 2024 to boot.
This is not 'getting away with it' The best case scenario is that they get to make abortions legal at the federal level for a matter of months, maybe 1.5 years tops, before its immediately reversed by republicans. And then we'd be plunging the nation into a ridiculous back and forth on policy based on each election cycle, moreso than it already is right now. The filibuster has been mitigating that.

History has shown that every time the democrats overreach, the Republicans are the ones who win long term. Mitch McConnell said that to Harry Reid point blank when he went nuclear on the judiciary, and look how that turned out


That's assuming that Republicans win the House and the presidency in 2024, neither of which is a guarantee. We have no idea what the political climate will look like in 2024, or who the candidates will be, or how the public will react to them.
There is at least a decent chance that covid will be a distant memory by 2024 and that inflation will have abated. In such an environment, I can definitely imagine Biden winning a rematch with Trump. If Trump becomes the nominee, he will get more coverage and screentime than he does now and voters would be quickly reminded of why they hated him so much in the first place. That's surely not the most likely scenario, but not an outlandish one either.

Regarding abortion, it's imho fairly obvious that the issue should be settled by the states now, like the SCOTUS suggested. Neither side should push for a federal law which imposes their side's view onto states where the majority's view on the issue is diametrically opposed.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 8 2022 01:13am
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Jul 8 2022 11:02am
FUCK JOE BIDEN
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Jul 8 2022 01:37pm
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1545444306995011585

Imagine your job being to stand behind Joe Biden and hold a straight face
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Jul 8 2022 01:46pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Jul 8 2022 12:37pm)
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1545444306995011585

Imagine your job being to stand behind Joe Biden and hold a straight face


:)
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Jul 8 2022 02:23pm
Quote (thundercock @ Jul 8 2022 01:47am)
Is this news? Didn't she vote to end the legislative filibuster regarding voting rights? The legislative filibuster only benefits Republicans in the long run so it makes sense for Dems to end it ASAP.


3 Supreme Court justices would like to disagree.
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Jul 8 2022 02:39pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Jul 8 2022 01:23pm)
3 Supreme Court justices would like to disagree.


That's not legislative.
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Jul 8 2022 02:49pm
The Senate has a substantial bias toward more rural, white states, so we can assume the GOP to control it significantly more than 50% of the time. Hence, the filibuster only benefits Republicans more than Democrats if we assume that there is, and will remain, a huge gap in interest in passing legislation between the two parties. And to be honest, I think it's a mistake to assume that they will have no legislative priorities, even when they have a solid majority. In the short term, this assumption might well be true, but in the long run, it's imho rather bold.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 8 2022 02:50pm
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Jul 8 2022 02:55pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 8 2022 01:49pm)
The Senate has a substantial bias toward more rural, white states, so we can assume the GOP to control it significantly more than 50% of the time. Hence, the filibuster only benefits Republicans more than Democrats if we assume that there is, and will remain, a huge gap in interest in passing legislation between the two parties. And to be honest, I think it's a mistake to assume that they will have no legislative priorities, even when they have reliable majorities. In the short term, this assumption might well be true, but in the long run, it's imho rather bold.


I think that's a pretty safe assumption given the current state of things. I think things are fluid enough that both parties will change substantially over the next decade. It's possible that in 10 years, rural white voters LOVE the Democrats. It's possible that it 10 years, black voters will be an important voting bloc for Republicans. New issues will cause new coalitions to form.

The most important thing about abolishing the current filibuster (I support the old school kind) is that it forces a party to be responsive to the voters. It prevents parties from throwing their arms in the air and ignoring their constituents.

This post was edited by thundercock on Jul 8 2022 02:56pm
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Jul 8 2022 04:26pm
Quote (thundercock @ Jul 8 2022 04:55pm)
I think that's a pretty safe assumption given the current state of things. I think things are fluid enough that both parties will change substantially over the next decade. It's possible that in 10 years, rural white voters LOVE the Democrats. It's possible that it 10 years, black voters will be an important voting bloc for Republicans. New issues will cause new coalitions to form.

The most important thing about abolishing the current filibuster (I support the old school kind) is that it forces a party to be responsive to the voters. It prevents parties from throwing their arms in the air and ignoring their constituents.


The benefit of the filibuster is that it prevents wild whiplash in policy. The negatives are obvious. I'm not sure what the right decision is.
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