d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Putin Already Lost The War In Ukraine
Prev189101112120Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Views: 16840Replies: 1197Track Topic
Member
Posts: 15,918
Joined: Jun 27 2010
Gold: 102,354.50
#91
Jul 21 2022 04:38pm
Quote (Ironfister @ Jul 22 2022 12:26am)
The nukes mean only that nobody can seriously occupy Russia.
Russians cant really use nukes in an offensive war, they need to keep some countries on their side, telling lies about Russia rights to occupy Europeans, and they simply cant do it if they use nukes.
Russia can try to sell their resources somewhere, but first of all China doesnt want to increase oil Russia imports, as this not strategically a good decision to rely too much on a single provider.
Also west pays biggest price. They can try to sell their oil in India or Africa, but it means a lot of discount compared to prices Europeans used to pay.
Russia hasnt really full mobilized, but I dont think they even can. Russians dont care about war as long as its just soldiers fight, hovewer if people would be forced to go to army, to fight offensive war, they would riot. and their mothers/families too.
You cant really compare defensive war during WW2, with current offensive war.


That's why I said it's a bad comparison. Comparing Hitler with Putin is dumb.

Even when Russia's natural gas stays in the ground, the value will only rise in the future. BTW did you know they make more right now from selling less? Sanctions are working really well /s

--> Where did I say they're going to use nukes? Just having the nukes is all that is needed.
Member
Posts: 34,186
Joined: May 25 2007
Gold: 21.00
Warn: 10%
#92
Jul 21 2022 04:38pm
Member
Posts: 15,918
Joined: Jun 27 2010
Gold: 102,354.50
#93
Jul 21 2022 04:47pm
Quote (thundercock @ Jul 22 2022 12:36am)
There's nothing to "get" about nukes. China has nukes, France has nukes, we have nukes, etc. No one is going to use them. Do you fear the fact that I own a gun when you're debating with me? Of course not! The same principle applies to Russia's nukes because they aren't going to be put in a situation where they feel the need to use them. How YOU don't get that is surprising.

Russia will eventually give up the war just like they did in Afghanistan. Some things just aren't worth the fight. Russia already "gave up" on several fronts of the war so I don't know why you think they have this unbreakable will to keep fighting.

No, I mean how many citizens of Russia have died in this war. The answer is A LOT. Way more than the US lost in 20 years fighting the War on Terror. Obviously Eastern Ukrainians are dying because they are fighting for their independence. They are in open rebellion right now.

From an economic standpoint, it's true that Russia will be forced to pivot to China for natural gas. However, that will be a painful transition and I'm not sure if China's demand can replace Europe's. India will be significantly harder, if not impossible, due to geography and the number of countries involved.


If Russia didn't have nukes there would be a NATO coalition in Ukraine right now just like the one that fought the first gulf war. Now explain to me again nukes don't matter, lol. (checkmate)

Do you think Russia's leadership has a problem with dead soldiers just like we in the West? Really?

Afghanistan is a shithole and most likely always will be. Ask NATO about it.
Member
Posts: 34,186
Joined: May 25 2007
Gold: 21.00
Warn: 10%
#94
Jul 21 2022 04:53pm
Quote (Djunior @ Jul 21 2022 03:47pm)
If Russia didn't have nukes there would be a NATO coalition in Ukraine right now just like the one that fought the first gulf war. Now explain to me again nukes don't matter, lol. (checkmate)

Do you think Russia's leadership has a problem with dead soldiers just like we in the West? Really?

Afghanistan is a shithole and most likely always will be. Ask NATO about it.


this guy thinks Ukraine = Afghanistan?

Ukraine has only been a country for 30 years, it's always been part of Rus, except when it was occupied by Turks

Afghanistan has been unconquered for 5000 years. British Empire failed, Soviet Empire failed, American Empire failed
Member
Posts: 35,291
Joined: Aug 17 2004
Gold: 12,730.67
#95
Jul 21 2022 04:58pm
Quote (Djunior @ Jul 21 2022 03:47pm)
If Russia didn't have nukes there would be a NATO coalition in Ukraine right now just like the one that fought the first gulf war. Now explain to me again nukes don't matter, lol. (checkmate)

Do you think Russia's leadership has a problem with dead soldiers just like we in the West? Really?

Afghanistan is a shithole and most likely always will be. Ask NATO about it.


Fighting a conventional war with Russia, without nukes, would result in the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans and Europeans. No one wants that.

Yes, I think Russian leadership has a problem with dead soldiers because it hurts their national security. For example, Georgia might get uppity again and it would be much more difficult to respond. Russia might lose influence in Syria. Kazakhstan has already openly defied Russia since the war. Japan could be more aggressive if it wants to. The fact that the Russians are unable to project their power as anticipated is a MASSIVE national security risk. With enough dead soldiers, you also run the risk of open rebellion in your country. It's unlikely to happen but it's more likely to happen now than before the war.

The reason I brought up Afghanistan is to show you that Russia is more than happy to give up on a war that isn't bearing fruit. Had Russia successfully decapitated the Ukrainian government during the first week, we wouldn't be having this conversation and Europe might have just accepted the reality. Russia, much to their dismay, completely failed and they are paying a very heavy price.
Member
Posts: 15,918
Joined: Jun 27 2010
Gold: 102,354.50
#96
Jul 21 2022 05:01pm
Quote (thundercock @ Jul 22 2022 12:58am)
Fighting a conventional war with Russia, without nukes, would result in the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans and Europeans. No one wants that.

Yes, I think Russian leadership has a problem with dead soldiers because it hurts their national security. For example, Georgia might get uppity again and it would be much more difficult to respond. Russia might lose influence in Syria. Kazakhstan has already openly defied Russia since the war. Japan could be more aggressive if it wants to. The fact that the Russians are unable to project their power as anticipated is a MASSIVE national security risk. With enough dead soldiers, you also run the risk of open rebellion in your country. It's unlikely to happen but it's more likely to happen now than before the war.

The reason I brought up Afghanistan is to show you that Russia is more than happy to give up on a war that isn't bearing fruit. Had Russia successfully decapitated the Ukrainian government during the first week, we wouldn't be having this conversation and Europe might have just accepted the reality. Russia, much to their dismay, completely failed and they are paying a very heavy price.


What kind of fruit is there to be had in Afghanistan?

Eastern Ukraine has Crimea and Sevastopol.
Member
Posts: 34,186
Joined: May 25 2007
Gold: 21.00
Warn: 10%
#97
Jul 21 2022 05:06pm
Quote (Djunior @ Jul 21 2022 04:01pm)
What kind of fruit is there to be had in Afghanistan?

Eastern Ukraine has Crimea and Sevastopol.


Afghanistan has plentiful natural resources
Member
Posts: 35,291
Joined: Aug 17 2004
Gold: 12,730.67
#98
Jul 21 2022 05:12pm
Quote (Djunior @ Jul 21 2022 04:01pm)
What kind of fruit is there to be had in Afghanistan?

Eastern Ukraine has Crimea and Sevastopol.


Are you asking why the Soviets invaded Afghanistan? I'm not sure if there is a SINGLE reason, but I think if you had to pin it on one, it would be the risk of the "stans" seceding from the Union. Turns out they weren't wrong on that point!

I don't think the Ukrainians are particularly interested in getting Crimea back any time soon, if at all. They'll bitch and moan about it, but the cost to get it back would be ASTRONOMICAL. Historically, it hasn't been considered "Ukrainian," and it's really really hard to invade geographically. Ukraine also doesn't have a navy and it will take years for them to be on par with Russia's. When a treaty is signed, and there will be one signed at some point, one of the provisions will be that Ukraine won't be able to impede water rights to the region.
Member
Posts: 52,224
Joined: Jan 3 2009
Gold: 8,902.00
#99
Jul 21 2022 06:53pm
Quote (Djunior @ Jul 21 2022 03:31pm)
If Russia stops today then it already has a land-bridge to Crimea and occupied most of Donbass. Explain to us how we're gonna get them out, or surrender and hand over their 6K nukes to us.

That's the main deal right there, those 6K nukes if you still didn't get it. Enlighten us pls


If RuSsIa StOpS tOdAy, ThE uKrIaNiAnS wIlL tOo. Derp.
Member
Posts: 16,411
Joined: Apr 9 2007
Gold: 12,059.17
#100
Jul 21 2022 11:54pm
Quote (Djunior @ 22 Jul 2022 00:38)
That's why I said it's a bad comparison. Comparing Hitler with Putin is dumb.

Even when Russia's natural gas stays in the ground, the value will only rise in the future. BTW did you know they make more right now from selling less? Sanctions are working really well /s



You didnt understand, Putin cannot fully mobilize his nation into Ukraine war, he cannot fully draft man because its not defensive war and his people wont accept big draft in all population for offensive war.

Sanctions are partially working because for example Brent to Ural price difference is like 33usd now, it halves Russian profits.
As I told you China wont switch to "Russia oil only", even if Russia gives them discount, because they arent stupid and wont make themselves single supplier dependant.
For now prices are high, but we all know that sometimes prices are low, sometimes they are high.
Also Russia cannot import western technology, all they can do instead is to became China colony, just like Belarus became Russia's colony.
Russia made all the data about their economy secret, so its definitely going wrong.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev189101112120Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll

© 2003-2026 d2jsp  Contact