And you've been explicitly shown those are not the positions held by most people who advocate for them.

There's really nowhere to go when you won't let go of the need to conflate the fringe with the main. This is the ICE thread all over again, where despite being shown removing ICE doesn't remove border enforcement while talking to somebody who explicitly tells you they aren't in favor of total abolition, but you insist they mean just that.

Maybe your emotional crutch is the need to be contrarian, because you certainly aren't being rational.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jul 19 2020 02:50pm

This is a moot point. Part of why we elect representatives is so that our over-the-top opinions will be represented by someone who' is more diplomatic, more educated and more skilled at finding compromise.

When people yell "abolish the police", your country is in no practical danger of having its police abolished.

This post was edited by Leevee on Jul 19 2020 03:13pm

Which brings me back to my earlier point that for the past decades, what was considered to be fringe one year has become the liberal mainstream 10 or so years later.



"Abolish ICE" might not be intended to mean literally abolish all border enforcement, but it is very much understood by its proponents as a call for weakening the country's borders substantially, potentially to the point of de facto open borders.







But those calls to "abolish the police" undercut the authority of law enforcement and increase community distrust in them even further. And this, in turn, makes communities more unsafe.

Which is exactly what has played out across the U.S. since the death of George Floyd: many people turned on the police, which caused the political leadership to follow their voters and also withdraw their confidence in their local police departments, which has rendered the police unable to respond to all sorts of crime out of fear of being attacked by a violent mob, or of being called out for purported racism and violence if they engage.

A NYC police officers association bought an ad to publish their open letter to mayor Bill De Blasio that really sums it up nicely:



This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 19 2020 03:49pm

Yeah, fringe ideas like "blacks should be able to marry whites".

Like I said before, you aren't actually looking at the issues proactively and thinking about where things should go. You're responding negatively until things shift around you.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jul 19 2020 03:51pm

I merely described the pattern, I didnt include a judgement. Back in the 1950s, fringe liberal ideas like desegregation might have been a good thing. But what is a fringe liberal idea in 2020 is most definitely not a good idea.

In 2020, you get stuff like this:


"In order to be less racist, we should hire people based on their race rather than their talent."

Can you show me a fringe idea from the left that got mainstream acceptance in the last 60 years that wasn't a pretty good thing? Seems like all the fringe ideas that suck get discarded, and the ones that are great like gay marriage get accepted and propagated. This is basically the same everywhere. "Music was better in the old days" because nobody remembers the shit. Well, the idea that the political ideas were better in the old days goes through the same process.

Like I've said before, the ideal function of the left and the right is as a contrasting force of change and stability. The left should be throwing out as many ideas as possible, while the right helps weed out bad ones.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jul 19 2020 04:17pm

we got mandatory free healthcare passed and signed into law by a near-supermajority (D) congress and (D) president that ended up being more expensive than the prior iteration (which wasn’t free)

Wait, when did mandatory free healthcare happen? I'm still paying my premiums and the poor in my state still don't qualify for medicaid.

sounds like #fakenews sir. look at the affordable healthcare act. media and democrats said it was going to be free universal healthcare mandated by law and you could keep your doctor. and when pressed about the notion pelosi said ‘we have to pass it to find out’ and it passed

- diversity quotas
- third wave feminism and its hostility toward men and masculinity
- intersectionality and critical theory
- abandoning the idea of the American melting pot in favor of multiculturalism
- large-scale amnesty plus a pathway to citizenship for almost every illegal immigrant
- political correctness in its present-day extremes
- safe spaces
- cancel culture
- weakening the concept of self-responsibility beyond what's justified, normalizing belief in and demands for a "nanny state"
- perverted the originally good concept of "equal opportunity" to effectively mean "forced equality of outcomes"


There is of course some overlap between these points, and not all of those items are equally established yet, but they have all become mainstream in corporate America, in American universities, colleges and schools, in the media and in large swaths of the political sphere.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 19 2020 05:31pm