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Dec 1 2017 03:23pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Dec 1 2017 03:17pm)
Presidents don't normally try to leave turds in the oval office for the incoming administration.


i think any presidential historian would classify it as slightly uncommon but not at all rare, especially on a macro view. Not every president that was unseated after one term was GHWB, and not every 2 term president was happy to hand over the oval office to their opposition.

Iranian hostage crisis would be a good example right?
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Dec 1 2017 03:36pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Dec 1 2017 03:23pm)
i think any presidential historian would classify it as slightly uncommon but not at all rare, especially on a macro view. Not every president that was unseated after one term was GHWB, and not every 2 term president was happy to hand over the oval office to their opposition.

Iranian hostage crisis would be a good example right?


within the october surprise conspiracy theory that's probably true, that's an example of Reagan colluding with Iran to influence the election, so its not the same thing as if Jimmy Carter intentionally left a turd for Reagan
If we dug through history and tried to find examples of substantive poison pill measures taken by outgoing presidents before an opponent takes office, could we really find anything on par with Obama's?
It was supposed to be scandalous when the Clinton team had an urban legend about taking the W keys off keyboards in 2001. But in terms of substantive radical policy changes?
We're not just talking about one or two pet political projects that a desperate president tried to enact in the last minute, we're talking about a coordinated series of measures aimed at the successor

I can't remember them all, but offhand I know about Bear Ears, the Arctic refuge, the UN israeli vote, the Russia sanctions, the Planned Parenthood mandate. I'm not sure, what's the status on this one, was it repealed?:
http://thehill.com/regulation/315667-study-obama-administration-issued-40b-in-midnight-regs

But point being, Obama had taco bell and didn't flush. I can't think of any other president going so all-in on last ditch measures to spite his successor
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Dec 1 2017 03:40pm
flynn lied news at 11

Quote (Goomshill @ 1 Dec 2017 15:29)
Have you got a link to a source claiming that?

Are you sure the Brian Ross quote above isn't conflating the two? Because the twitter buzz around it is suggesting that
Just typing it into google I get:

https://mobile.twitter.com/abc/status/936628560374071296

its notable in that tweet from abc regarding Ross’ claim, doesnt match up to his own article that abc has as of right now

http://archive.is/jJbNI
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/michael-flynn-charged-making-false-statements-fbi-documents/story?id=50849354

Flynn has promised special counsel 'full cooperation' in Russia probe: Source
By BRIAN ROSS (and some other dweebs)

Quote
Retired Lt. Gen Michael Flynn has promised “full cooperation” in the special counsel’s Russia investigation and, according to a confidant, is prepared to testify that Donald Trump directed him to make contact with the Russians, initially as a way to work together to fight ISIS in Syria.


searched the article and found nothing phrasing “contact during the campaign”. unless it was changed at some point.

other entities are using that tweet as source material, not the article itself

e: ross is schooled in the art of hyperbole it seems

https://www.politico.com/story/2012/07/abcs-ross-wrong-again-and-again-078793



This post was edited by excellence on Dec 1 2017 03:43pm
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Dec 1 2017 03:41pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Dec 1 2017 03:36pm)
within the october surprise conspiracy theory that's probably true, that's an example of Reagan colluding with Iran to influence the election, so its not the same thing as if Jimmy Carter intentionally left a turd for Reagan
If we dug through history and tried to find examples of substantive poison pill measures taken by outgoing presidents before an opponent takes office, could we really find anything on par with Obama's?
It was supposed to be scandalous when the Clinton team had an urban legend about taking the W keys off keyboards in 2001. But in terms of substantive radical policy changes?
We're not just talking about one or two pet political projects that a desperate president tried to enact in the last minute, we're talking about a coordinated series of measures aimed at the successor

I can't remember them all, but offhand I know about Bear Ears, the Arctic refuge, the UN israeli vote, the Russia sanctions, the Planned Parenthood mandate. I'm not sure, what's the status on this one, was it repealed?:
http://thehill.com/regulation/315667-study-obama-administration-issued-40b-in-midnight-regs

But point being, Obama had taco bell and didn't flush. I can't think of any other president going so all-in on last ditch measures to spite his successor


i wasn't speaking to the par, just the precedent.

i'm also sure that any presidential historian would tell you there's a cutoff date which we can't reference past with much credibility. Who knows what kind of deals those fucks pulled with foreign powers 100+ years ago. it seems without precedent in the modern era but i wouldnt be shocked to find out GHWB was actually a sore loser who laid traps for Billy.
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Dec 1 2017 03:43pm
Quote (TB12 @ Dec 1 2017 02:19pm)
The problem is there were multiple bills and one could not be agreed upon amongst Republicans. Yeah that's definitely a problem but once it's repealed they'd be forced to come up with something and it'd sure as heck be a lot better than Obamacare.


HAH! Dont kid yourself.
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Dec 1 2017 03:45pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Dec 1 2017 03:41pm)
i wasn't speaking to the par, just the precedent.

i'm also sure that any presidential historian would tell you there's a cutoff date which we can't reference past with much credibility. Who knows what kind of deals those fucks pulled with foreign powers 100+ years ago. it seems without precedent in the modern era but i wouldnt be shocked to find out GHWB was actually a sore loser who laid traps for Billy.


they ate scrapple and didn't empty the chamber pots?
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Dec 1 2017 03:50pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Dec 1 2017 03:45pm)
they ate scrapple and didn't empty the chamber pots?


the french, spanish, and GB governments sought to weaken the US from within for many many years. i'd be shocked if govt officials from the 1800s didn't help them here and there for spite.

i mean the whole "trump has destroyed political discourse" narrative is a joke. read up on the founding father's and what they said openly in chamber to each other, ad hom was a legit political tactic. we had 100 years of factions of the govt actively trying to undermine each other from within stemming from just the Hamilton-Jefferson debacle.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Dec 1 2017 03:50pm
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Dec 1 2017 03:56pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Dec 1 2017 03:50pm)
the french, spanish, and GB governments sought to weaken the US from within for many many years. i'd be shocked if govt officials from the 1800s didn't help them here and there for spite.

i mean the whole "trump has destroyed political discourse" narrative is a joke. read up on the founding father's and what they said openly in chamber to each other, ad hom was a legit political tactic. we had 100 years of factions of the govt actively trying to undermine each other from within stemming from just the Hamilton-Jefferson debacle.


probably, I guess
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Dec 1 2017 03:59pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Dec 1 2017 03:56pm)
probably, I guess


maybe not as american as apple pie but certainly not rare in my opinion. Obummer might still take the cake on high score tho
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Dec 1 2017 03:59pm
Here ya go libs listen to your cringefest

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