All reducible to the same brain processes.

Ever since I read existentialcomics and the characters had a conversation about how a person would obviously feel bad if you pumped him with happy hormones and killed his family in front of him, I've wanted to do this experiment. Take a bunch of people, tie them up, and kill their family while varying the doses of hormones you give them. I'd love to see if there's a concoction which will turn the experience into a long term happy memory.

This is, of course, completely unethical and I'm a monster for wanting to perform it.

not a monster, just an aspiring scientist

consider all the great work the nazi's did on hypothermia research

This post was edited by duffman316 on Feb 4 2016 10:07am

...is it not a requirement for - appreciating - non-suffering ?

As I've said before on here, I don't think so. It is not necessary to know suffering to be able to appreciate joy (and likewise, it is not necessary to ever know joy in order for suffering to be horrific).

The reason we think this way is because our brains are programmed to circumvent feeling good for too long. That's why drug dependence and tolerance exists. But there's no reason it has to be this way. If we had the necessary technology, we could mitigate the effects of these neural systems that adjust when we feel too good for too long.

We know pure bliss shows no physiological tolerance when these regulatory systems are avoided, e.g direct brain stimulation. So yes, one could fully and completely appreciate all good feelings without ever having experienced suffering.

And the key is that all positive experience, from basic pleasure to love for your family to intellectual stimulation, is modulated by the same brain operations, specifically agonism of the mu-opioid receptors in the twin hedonic hotspots of the opioid system. Meaning everything good we've ever felt is caused by just a basic brain system.

That doesn't make it any less real or genuine and if we were to artificially cause these states they wouldn't feel any less real or genuine.




I should restate by saying that everything good ever is reducible to the specific brain functions associated with pleasure.

This post was edited by Voyaging on Feb 4 2016 10:57am

You can't reduce emergent properties to their individual components.

...for the sake of discussion and reflection I will add an example . The cessation of a severe toothache leads to a sense of gratitude/relief that the pain is over . My belief is that this extrapolates onto all forms of suffering .

Hes right, the phenomenon is called habituation and it works psychologically as well.

Suffering is necessary in the world, but only people of higher spiritual understanding that see the big picture would realize why within the scope of a lifetime. Most of us first-worlders are just far removed from any of the struggles to survive that exist.


There's also the distinction between pleasure and happiness.

Pleasure is only physiological and is related to desire, and suffering is the counterpart. Whereas happiness is a peace of mind that comes from knowing you live in balance.

This post was edited by EndlessSky on Feb 4 2016 01:11pm

2% brain-bodymass is factual information derived from the scientific method.
Reduce that proportion by 1.3% or more & we're back in the savannah with out the ability to philosophize.

So fatter people have bigger brains?

Science - making people smarter 1 calorie at a time.