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Jun 27 2014 07:30am
Quote (wofire @ Jun 27 2014 06:57am)
1) show me these studies please.
2) True...True and True.
3) Because it wouldn't prove it. In the Bible there were many who saw the healings and still didn't believe in God. The healings are meant to be personable acts of kindness. Also although we can pray for healings, it is not us doing the healing so honestly we don't bat 100%. We do our best to hear what God says and we do it. If that involves a healing here and there then great.


Quote
In the study, the researchers monitored 1,802 patients at six hospitals who received coronary bypass surgery, in which doctors reroute circulation around a clogged vein or artery.

The patients were broken into three groups. Two were prayed for; the third was not. Half the patients who received the prayers were told that they were being prayed for; half were told that they might or might not receive prayers.

The researchers asked the members of three congregations — St. Paul's Monastery in St. Paul; the Community of Teresian Carmelites in Worcester, Mass.; and Silent Unity, a Missouri prayer ministry near Kansas City — to deliver the prayers, using the patients' first names and the first initials of their last names.

The congregations were told that they could pray in their own ways, but they were instructed to include the phrase, "for a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications."

Analyzing complications in the 30 days after the operations, the researchers found no differences between those patients who were prayed for and those who were not.

In another of the study's findings, a significantly higher number of the patients who knew that they were being prayed for — 59 percent — suffered complications, compared with 51 percent of those who were uncertain.

The study also found that more patients in the uninformed prayer group — 18 percent — suffered major complications, like heart attack or stroke, compared with 13 percent in the group that did not receive prayers. In their report, the researchers suggested that this finding might also be a result of chance


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Interesting study I haven't read in a while. There are other studies but this is apparently the largest one. The author set out to show the power of prayer but it didn't work out in this study.
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Jun 27 2014 10:05am
Quote (wofire @ 27 Jun 2014 10:11)
Both. We are part of God's original plan of a people group that reflects his glory as well as the Body of Christ. Can we take God's promises to Israel as our own? I believe in some ways yes...Both the israels of old and the Church of now are God's chosen people.


according to their response, to understand that all inhabitants of the planet will be saved because they are in God's plan.
this is independent of whether or not Christian.
correct?
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Jun 28 2014 07:45pm
Quote (El Shadday @ Jun 27 2014 11:05am)
according to their response, to understand that all inhabitants of the planet will be saved because they are in God's plan.
this is independent of whether or not Christian.
correct?


disagree...I don't think all will be saved because they are in God's plan. Sorry, but some will accept God's gift, most will not. I don't understand everything you have asked here
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Jun 28 2014 07:47pm
Quote (wofire @ Jun 28 2014 08:45pm)
disagree...I don't think all will be saved because they are in God's plan. Sorry, but some will accept God's gift, most will not. I don't understand everything you have asked here


Universalism makes no sense in the Christian perspective. I see nothing in scripture which supports it. You'd have to cut out much of Revelation and even the words of Jesus himself.

This post was edited by IceMage on Jun 28 2014 07:49pm
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Jun 28 2014 07:58pm
Quote (dark-soul @ Jun 27 2014 08:30am)
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Interesting study I haven't read in a while. There are other studies but this is apparently the largest one. The author set out to show the power of prayer but it didn't work out in this study.


I am happy that you found this for me.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3275584/

This is a link attempting to explain why intercessory prayer is difficult to scientifically prove or disprove. I still stand by my beliefs in healing prayer from my personal experience with it. I assume most people in the tests do not have faith for healing. Furthermore, I don't believe God will always heal someone because his plan may involve that illness. For example, There was a blind pianist who had a very powerful ministry because he had join even in his illnesses. Most experience of intercessory prayer I see involve faith from the person being prayed for. I want to clarify I am not saying that some people don't get healed because they don't have enough faith. Some people aren't healed because God has a different plan.

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Jun 28 2014 07:59pm
Quote (IceMage @ Jun 28 2014 08:47pm)
Universalism makes no sense in the Christian perspective.  I see nothing in scripture which supports it.  You'd have to cut out much of Revelation and even the words of Jesus himself.


I think you are agreeing with me...
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Jun 28 2014 08:00pm
Quote (wofire @ 28 Jun 2014 22:45)
disagree...I don't think all will be saved because they are in God's plan. Sorry, but some will accept God's gift, most will not. I don't understand everything you have asked here



that all people are in God's plan, then everyone will be saved.
that's what I understood from your answer.
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Jun 28 2014 08:02pm
Quote (wofire @ Jun 28 2014 08:59pm)
I think you are agreeing with me...


I am. :)

Quote (El Shadday @ Jun 28 2014 09:00pm)
that all people are in God's plan, then everyone will be saved.
that's what I understood from your answer.


What in scripture indicates that God will accept everyone into heaven? That would make any "judgement" irrelevant.
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Jun 28 2014 08:12pm
Quote (IceMage @ 28 Jun 2014 23:02)
I am.  :)



What in scripture indicates that God will accept everyone into heaven?  That would make any "judgement" irrelevant.


judge is pertinent to men of moral inferiority.
Jesus himself did not judge anyone


Matthew 7
New International Version (NIV)
7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
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Jun 28 2014 08:14pm
Quote (El Shadday @ Jun 28 2014 09:12pm)
judge is pertinent to men of moral inferiority.
Jesus himself did not judge anyone


Matthew 7
New International Version (NIV)
7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.


.... the Bible make it pretty clear that there is a judgement day and God will judge us. Do you disagree with this?

I'm also curious as to why you would limit God by his words to humans. Just because humans are not to judge, doesn't mean He is not to judge.

This post was edited by IceMage on Jun 28 2014 08:17pm
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