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Oct 12 2012 11:08pm
Quote (Voyaging @ Oct 12 2012 11:07pm)
What about: If I'm happy then I feel good.?



No because if it is possible for it to be necessary then in some possible world it exists and is necessary so therefore exists in all possible worlds. The actual existence of world W is not required.



You have?


If in some possible world it exists, that relies it to exist in that possible world, and if that possible world doesn't exist, that implies everything inside it doesn't exist.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Oct 12 2012 11:08pm
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Oct 12 2012 11:09pm
1. A being has maximal bigness in a given possible world W if and only if it is infinitely huge in W; <- definition
2. A being has maximal largeness if it has maximal bigness in every possible world. <- definition
3. It is possible that there is something has maximal largeness. (Premise) <- this is the premise that must be accepted for the argument to be valid
4. Therefore, possibly, it is necessarily true that an infinitely huge thing exists. <- follows from 3
5. Therefore, (by axiom S5) it is necessarily true that an infinitely huge thing exists. <- follows from 4
6. Therefore, an infinitely huge being exists. <- follows from 5

logically sound

playing with in-definitive terms

discard immediately

This post was edited by duffman316 on Oct 12 2012 11:13pm
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Oct 12 2012 11:10pm
Quote (Voyaging @ Oct 12 2012 11:07pm)
What about: If I'm happy then I feel good.?


An empirical observation of the mind. Our minds developed 'good' from pleasure and pain, as well as group dynamics that ensured the survival of the group and thus ensured maximum sexual intercourse.

Quote (Voyaging @ Oct 12 2012 11:07pm)
You have?

You'd be wrong anyway, because it is valid.

The only possible rejection to the argument is the premise.


Yes, I have.

Quote (AEtheric @ Oct 12 2012 08:22pm)
The conclusion does not follow. How is it that since something is possible, that means that it must exist? Unicorns are possible, but does that mean that they exist?
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Oct 12 2012 11:15pm
basically you're doing this and i'm saying stop pls :/
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Oct 12 2012 11:17pm
Quote (AEtheric @ Oct 13 2012 01:10am)
An empirical observation of the mind. Our minds developed 'good' from pleasure and pain, as well as group dynamics that ensured the survival of the group and thus ensured maximum sexual intercourse.


The word empirical denotes information acquired by means of observation or experimentation.

Quote (AEtheric @ Oct 13 2012 01:10am)
Yes, I have.


What you just said is not the same as what thor said.

Quote (duffman316 @ Oct 13 2012 01:09am)
1. A being has maximal bigness in a given possible world W if and only if it is infinitely huge in W; <- definition
2. A being has maximal largeness if it has maximal bigness in every possible world. <- definition
3. It is possible that there is something has maximal largeness. (Premise) <- this is the premise that must be accepted for the argument to be valid
4. Therefore, possibly, it is necessarily true that an infinitely huge thing exists. <- follows from 3
5. Therefore, (by axiom S5) it is necessarily true that an infinitely huge thing exists. <- follows from 46. Therefore, an infinitely huge being exists. <- follows from 5

logically sound

playing with in-definitive terms

discard immediately


Definitely the best counter-point I've yet seen in this thread. Give me a bit to respond.

Quote (duffman316 @ Oct 13 2012 01:15am)
basically you're doing this and i'm saying stop pls :/
http://i45.tinypic.com/rbbf5c.png


Damn just when you had me thinking you actually had a good point going you ruin it with a straw man.

Even your own refutation isn't refuting this point.

This post was edited by Voyaging on Oct 12 2012 11:19pm
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Oct 12 2012 11:19pm
Quote (Voyaging @ Oct 12 2012 11:17pm)
The word empirical denotes information acquired by means of observation or experimentation.



What you just said is not the same as what thor said.



Definitely the best counter-point I've yet seen in this thread. Give me a bit to respond.


Basically the argument just boils down to something like

a maximally great being would exist in all worlds as part of being maximally great. Therefore if he exists in one world, he would exist in all worlds.



However you STILL must establish the existence of the original world that implies the existence of the maximally great being, or he has nowhere to expand from into all other worlds as nothing ever implied his existence.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Oct 12 2012 11:19pm
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Oct 12 2012 11:21pm
Quote (Voyaging @ Oct 12 2012 11:17pm)
The word empirical denotes information acquired by means of observation or experimentation.


And how are thoughts or emotions not observations?



Quote (Voyaging @ Oct 12 2012 11:17pm)
What you just said is not the same as what thor said.


Yes it is.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Oct 12 2012 10:56pm)
I don't see how

If possibly P, then necessarily possibly P means something exists.  It seems just to reaffirm that it is possible.


It seems to just be saying


It is possible for the maximally great being to exist

Therfore it is necessarily possible for it to exist.


It's still saying its possible for him to exist, but I don't see anywhere in there that makes it definitively exist.


This post was edited by AEtheric on Oct 12 2012 11:22pm
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Oct 12 2012 11:21pm
Quote (Voyaging @ Oct 13 2012 05:17am)

Damn just when you had me thinking you actually had a good point going you ruin it with a straw man.

Even your own refutation isn't refuting this point.


k i'm sure some legitamite algebra rule is being broken here but most people won't recognize it so i wanted to run with it :/
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Oct 12 2012 11:22pm
Quote (duffman316 @ Oct 12 2012 10:15pm)
basically you're doing this and i'm saying stop pls :/
http://i45.tinypic.com/rbbf5c.png

That second to last step does not compute! 5th step does not compute

This post was edited by Azrad on Oct 12 2012 11:24pm
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Oct 12 2012 11:22pm
Quote (Azrad @ Oct 13 2012 05:22am)
That second to last step does not compute!


math majors in the house, let me have my fun dammit
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