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Jan 15 2011 11:07am
Quote (Massous24 @ Jan 15 2011 12:03pm)
I have a right to take my child outside my house, but I can not because there are smokers everywhere and I do not want to harm my child.


assumed risk of living in an open society

your child will suffer far more harmful effects from unavoidable pollutants than it ever will from a random whiff of cigarette smoke wafting by
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Jan 15 2011 11:07am
Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Jan 15 2011 12:05pm)
I think it is really sad we are losing the right to smoke in public.


good thing i still have the right to pick my nose and wipe it on shit...

filthy habits that dont benefit anybody and only cause harm ftw!
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Jan 15 2011 11:08am
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Jan 15 2011 12:07pm)
assumed risk of living in an open society

your child will suffer far more harmful effects from unavoidable pollutants than it ever will from a random whiff of cigarette smoke wafting by


Really?

Unavoidable pollutants have more then 4000 chemicals, some which are toxic and addictive?
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Jan 15 2011 11:10am
Quote (bentherdonethat @ Jan 15 2011 10:57am)
And driving drunk isn't legal either, is it? So none of those three things are legal :D


Alright, I'll re-address:

Quote (Massous24 @ Jan 15 2011 10:48am)
Cigarette smoke is the residue of your pleasure.  It contaminates the air, pollutes my hair and clothes, not to mention my lungs.  This takes place without my consent.  I have a pleasure, also.  I like a beer now and then.  The residue of my pleasure is urine.  Would you be annoyed if I stood on a chair and pissed on your head and your clothes without your consent?


Smoke in the air is NOT analogous to pissing directly on someone. You might have a point if a smoker walked up to you and cupped their hands and placed their mouth over your face and exhaled smoke, but since people don't do that, you need a better analogy.

Quote (Massous24 @ Jan 15 2011 10:59am)
your not arguing with me now, your just arguing with scientific facts that proves that second hand smoke is a high risk factor for sids.

and i dont mean you, i mean in general, why should my child not have freedom to leave the house without being negatively affected by smoke?


It has to do with assessing risks to everything in life. You do not have a right to live a completely risk free life. Rights and liberties must be balanced with overt risks and outright dangers. This is where personal responsibility comes in. If you don't WISH your child to be at slightly elevated risk for SIDS, act accordingly. What you DON'T do is further erode people's RIGHTS over an extremely minor risk.
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Jan 15 2011 11:11am
Quote (Massous24 @ Jan 15 2011 12:08pm)
Really?

Unavoidable pollutants have more then 4000 chemicals, some which are toxic and addictive?


When I lived in NYC one day of breathing the air was the same chemical exposure as smoking a pack a day . Assumed risk .

You want no risk , go live in the woods although next you'll want to outlaw bears because they might eat you child .
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Jan 15 2011 11:13am
Quote (bentherdonethat @ Jan 15 2011 11:04am)
So if people don't have the right to smoke, why would you say they have the right to smoke in public? No one's stopping anyone from going to those bars (clearly, as they're still operating and I don't recall any closing as a result of the public smoking bans), so people are still freely associating.

@bolded: Now that sounds like something I've heard in pro-marijuana threads.


They have the right to freely associate and the right to control their private property. If you don't want people smoking in public, make smoking illegal, not smoking in some places is legal.

I happen to be pro marijuana for the exact same reason.
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Jan 15 2011 11:13am
Quote (Massous24 @ Jan 15 2011 05:06pm)
Well your not losing it, its just an argument..

Relax broski.


No, states have been picking up on smoking bans all over the country. And it will probably only get worse.

If people aren't lobbying to have smoking outright banned, then they are raising taxes on it to all hell so it's not worth smoking in the first place.

This sort of manipulation of society is wrong. No one has the right to live in the city of their dreams, and they certainly don't have the right to force everyone else to change.

If history is a guide, we'll likely never get these freedoms back. And I think that is very sad fate as it simply does not stop at smoking.
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Jan 15 2011 11:15am
Quote (Santara @ Jan 15 2011 12:10pm)
Alright, I'll re-address:



Smoke in the air is NOT analogous to pissing directly on someone. You might have a point if a smoker walked up to you and cupped their hands and placed their mouth over your face and exhaled smoke, but since people don't do that, you need a better analogy.



It has to do with assessing risks to everything in life. You do not have a right to live a completely risk free life. Rights and liberties must be balanced with overt risks and outright dangers. This is where personal responsibility comes in. If you don't WISH your child to be at slightly elevated risk for SIDS, act accordingly. What you DON'T do is further erode people's RIGHTS over an extremely minor risk.



1) Its not my analogy, its a quote. And It makes sense. In 10 minutes you could clean yourself of piss. Can I get rid of lung cancer in 10 minutes?

So the death of a child to you is MINOR?

Did you read this fact correctly?
Infants who die from SIDS have higher concentrations of nicotine in their lungs and higher levels of cotinine (a biological marker for secondhand smoke exposure) than infants who die from other causes.

Secondhand Smoke is among the top contributors for SIDS.


THIS IS JUST ONE TOPIC.

I COULD ALSO BRING UP WHY SHOULD A PREGNANT LADY INHALE SECONDHAND SMOKE?
WHY SHOULD NON SMOKERS INHALE SECONDHAND SMOKE? WHY SHOULD THEY INHALE NICOTINE AND POSSIBLY START TO SMOKE BECAUSE OF IT?
WHY ARE THERE OVER 40,000 DEATHS IN THE US BECAUSE OF SECOND HAND SMOKE?
WHY ARE CHILDREN DIAGNOSED WITH ASTHMA MORE AS A RESULT OF SECOND HAND SMOKE?


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Jan 15 2011 11:16am
I have a good friend who often says "pretty soon, the only place you'll be able to smoke is in your bedroom under a blanket with a flashlight."

This post was edited by Santara on Jan 15 2011 11:16am
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Jan 15 2011 11:16am
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Jan 15 2011 12:11pm)
When I lived in NYC one day of breathing the air was the same chemical exposure as smoking a pack a day . Assumed risk .

You want no risk , go live in the woods although next you'll want to outlaw bears because they might eat you child .


I live in NYC, and I have no problem with the air?

Are you serious or trying to troll me?
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