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Dec 10 2009 10:16pm
Quote (inkanddagger @ Dec 10 2009 10:05pm)
Beck is not a scientist, he is a retired high school teacher (Gymnasium)

Beck's basic idea seems to be that CO2 has fluctuated wildly over the past 180 years, based on some high readings from early (and presumably less accurate) chemical measurements. He dismisses as completely wrong the ice core records of millenia of stable levels followed by a smooth, gradual then accelerating rise as the industrial revolution kicked in.


"for4zim said...

Beck is not a scientist, he is a retired high school teacher (Gymnasium) for biology and physics from Freiburg."

Way to post the blog comment without the ending. Gee, he teaches biology and physics??? Maybe he got himself a degree to get his license...

edit: Good night again. See you tomorrow.

This post was edited by Santara on Dec 10 2009 10:17pm
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Dec 10 2009 10:23pm
Shits not real, get over it, etc.

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Dec 11 2009 02:01am
Soooo, so far we have decided, all of the hypotheses, data and conclusions are suspect because of the problem, that if there is no problem, then there is no more funding?

:unsure:

This post was edited by WhirlingDervish on Dec 11 2009 02:01am
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Dec 12 2009 01:33pm
Quote (inkanddagger @ Dec 9 2009 09:37pm)
I looked through all of them myself and still came up with an average of between 60 and 66% from them. The only one that mentions 90% is one studying different sorts of cloud formations and their effects on radiative forcing at the surface.

I am saying 66% to be on the high end, but also because 66% is the number used by the IPCC.


Upon further review, now I know you're lying. I just looked through every one of them that had links, and googled the rest that I could find, and the LOWEST figure I could find was 86% for combined water vapor and cloud cover. (Not local cloud cover, but global, since we're discussing global climate change, and there is always cloud cover over significant portions of the world). Most pin the figure between 95-97%.

Subsequently, taking into consideration the saturation level of radiation absorption, the increases in CO2 necessary to raise temperature become exponential. That would mean that if we assume the high side of your estimate of 1.8C, it would require a doubling of the CO2 level to obtain another 1.8C.

From one of those references:

Note added 1/5/2008:
Some authors [15] suggest that the percentage of warming attributable to CO2 is not 5%, but is closer to 26%. It is easy to show why the 26% estimate (and estimates similar to it) are almost certainly wrong. We know that the total warming from greenhouse gases is 33K. If 26% of this was from CO2, then doubling CO2 would raise temperatures by 0.26*33 or 8.6K. Since the 26% estimate is based on total radiation absorbed, and not the amount of warming, we would have to add secondary feedback effects to this figure. This would double or even triple the value, giving us a predicted temperature increase of up to 25° C, or a predicted global average temperature of 40°C (104°F). Balmy!
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Dec 12 2009 03:39pm
Quote (Santara @ Dec 10 2009 11:16pm)
"for4zim said...

    Beck is not a scientist, he is a retired high school teacher (Gymnasium) for biology and physics from Freiburg."

Way to post the blog comment without the ending. Gee, he teaches biology and physics??? Maybe he got himself a degree to get his license...

edit: Good night again. See you tomorrow.


Another Pro AGW supporter looking for the final solution and fudging data, or taking things out of context to garner more support.
Was I surprised? Not at all.
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Dec 12 2009 03:40pm
lol

High school bio and physics is pretty much exactly the same thing as climatology though, so the guy sounds pretty mega legit.
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Dec 12 2009 03:42pm
Quote (AiNedeSpelCzech @ Dec 12 2009 09:40pm)
lol

High school bio and physics is pretty much exactly the same thing as climatology though, so the guy sounds pretty mega legit.


Climatology is a lot of chemistry. I think its called atmospheric chemistry.
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Dec 12 2009 03:50pm
Quote (AiNedeSpelCzech @ Dec 12 2009 03:40pm)
lol

High school bio and physics is pretty much exactly the same thing as climatology though, so the guy sounds pretty mega legit.


Still dodging the entire thread? Once again, thank you for your valuable contribution to the discussion.

edit: Just because he teaches (taught?) at the high school level doesn't mean that his own schooling is only high school level.

This post was edited by Santara on Dec 12 2009 04:08pm
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Dec 12 2009 06:59pm
Am I missing something? Obviously the Earth is warming, but isn't looking at the past 150 years and trying to prove that man is the primary cause a bit disingenuous? 150 years out of 4.5 billion seems irrelevant. I was looking at this ice core sample (still incredibly small sample) to try and get a grasp on the issue. I'm sure I'm missing stuff as I don't follow the issue, but talk of cap and trade and government policy related to it is concerning.



eta: damn graph cuts off to present, ill have to find other graph i was looking at...

This post was edited by JBoney on Dec 12 2009 07:13pm
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Dec 13 2009 01:37pm
Quote (Santara @ 12 Dec 2009 16:50)
Still dodging the entire thread? Once again, thank you for your valuable contribution to the discussion.

edit: Just because he teaches (taught?) at the high school level doesn't mean that his own schooling is only high school level.


It's far from my area of expertise, so it's not really something that I discuss at great length. I've looked into the science enough to make it clear which side is lying, and that's about as far as I need to go; it's not something that I can discuss in granular detail at great length with someone who's being fed intentional lies - I don't know where to find the cracks in the lies, if you dig me. :)

And it doesn't matter what his level of education is if he's educated in something that's tangentially related to climatology at best. Unless the climate's turned into a living being, I'm pretty sure Biology has fuck-all to do with it, and Physics is hardly something that leads to expertise on climatology, either.

ETA: Because bullshitting about credentials -is- something I'm familiar with and good at seeing. :P

This post was edited by AiNedeSpelCzech on Dec 13 2009 01:38pm
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