Favorable framing calling them guidelines. In reality they’re more so directives. I work in banking and when regulators give you ‘guidelines’ on certain things everyone understands that they’ll comply or open up to scrutiny. This is no different, corporations took the lead of government because they always take the path of least resistance to not imperil profits.

I wrote SOPs for an oil company at the time and worked in Safety, so I know how unseriously it was taken and they were definitely guidelines lol. It was entirely based on company discretion and OSHA would only fine you if you were not wearing a mask, had no vaccine/exemption and someone reported it. There would've been a TON more religious discrimination suits if this wasn't the case.

This post was edited by MrSK on Apr 11 2024 01:39pm

Doesn't matter. You can't argue that you value bodily autonomy oh so much, then turn around and say "... except if it's inconvenient". Supporting a basic right while there is no reason to infringe on it is a pointless exercise. That's like saying "I support a free press, except when they critizice my company". Or "I support the right of free assembly, except when there's demonstrations against the government".

Also, most vaccine mandates only went into effect at a time when it was already well-known that the vaccines did nearly nothing to prevent transmission.




Many government employees and soldiers in the US lost their jobs because they refused to comply with Biden's vaccine mandate. For the record: you are wrong on these mandates not being enforced by private employers. But handcuffs was talking specifically about the government infringing on bodily autonomy, which it absolutely did in this case.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Apr 12 2024 05:55am

Military and government employees have had vaccine requirements as long as I can remember. Even as recently as 1991 with Anthrax Vaccines that they still to this day require one dose. It only became an issue when someone made it a “political” talking point in 2020.

The mandates were enforced on an employer level, not a state level as I said. Employers in the current market have the power to put guidelines in place to protect their business from undue costs of employees, including spreading illness that took people out for two weeks and is easily spreadable.

Also once again bodily autonomy is more nuanced and isn’t something where you “believe it or you don’t”

Those are vaccines which have been properly tested for years, if not decades, based on technology which is well-understood and for which we have sufficient data on long-term risks. None of that is true for the covid vaccines.

The fringe right was blowing the side effects of the covid vax ("clot shot") as well as the risks of the mRNA technology way out of proportion, don't get me wrong, but these side effects and risks do exist and it is perfectly reasonable for a healthy person to not want to subject oneself to them.



Then again: the covid vaccines did next to nothing to prevent transmission or infection, and this was also well-known by the time most mandates went into effect. Virtually the entire rationale for the vaccine mandates fell apart the second we found out that the protection against transmission wanes within 6 weeks when dealing with the delta or omikron variants of the virus.


There can be valid reasons to support guidelines and mandates which infringe on bodily autonomy. An example would be the vaccination against measles. The problem is just that no such reason existed in the case of the covid vaccines, AND the public health community as well as the politicians knew it, AND they still went ahead with the mandates although those mandates had lost their underlying rationale... all because they had overadvertized the vaccines and didn't want to lose face. And probably also because they didn't trust the public to understand a nuanced reality*.


*Namely that against the wuhan strain, the covid vaccines were super effective at preventing hospitalization and death and also quite effective against transmission. With regard to the delta and omikron variants, which were dominant when vaccine mandates were debated, there was still a strong reduction of hospitalization and death rates, albeit not as great as against the earlier variants, but the protection against transmission waned within a handful of weeks.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Apr 12 2024 10:43am

Claiming mRNA research hasn't been researched and well understood for years is just blatantly incorrect. It's been researched since the 60s.
Anthrax vaccines have some insane long-term side effects that vary heavily, but get muddied results since deployed soldiers are usually in hazardous environments.



You're fine not subjecting yourself to them, but that also means others do not have to subject themselves to you during a worldwide crisis. Same reason you can't go to specific countries without their vaccine and shot requirements since you'll be needlessly spreading diseases.



Vaccines are the entire reason we got weaker strains of the virus, that's how viruses work. They adapt to spread more efficiently once we get vaccines and become immune to the more dangerous symptoms. That's why the flu still exists despite people getting vaccines seasonally, and also why the bubonic plague is still around to this day.



I'd argue the opposite using some of the reasons you used above: We had(and still have) no idea the exact long term effects of Covid exposure to the general populace. We've had people lose their taste, sight, smell, "Covid fog", "Covid lung" and right now it's being described as Long Covid with no real measurement on if it's permanent or not. Doing drastic measures was definitely warranted considering how easily spread Covid was.

Do you live in Arizona?

if it's in the thread, my bad.

I support basic right except when it jeopardize the lives of others. And I am talking about fully mature individuals who got infected because of these assholes.

An outlook which demonizes patriotism, trivializes culture, and has precipitated the greatest demographic crisis in modern history.



Don't appropriate credit where it isn't due to you. The country responsible for our current prosperity no longer exists. We are the result of social and cultural institutions that have run their course.

there are still morons comparing the useless clot shots with actual vaccines, that work

down bad